JD_AMG

A 2.45 second lead around an almost 2min road course is the difference between a base C6 and a C6 Z06. Thats pretty huge, and definitely an *** kicking.

gocartone

iTrader: (4)

I wasn't saying actual distance, just a comparison for the lap times vs 1/4 mile times. The Camaro had a ~3% edge on the Mustang, which is about the same gap from first to tenth in F1 qualifying. A gap, yes, but it's hard to say that the car is faster around the track because one driver was ~3% faster with the easier to drive car (and the one he sounded more comfortable with) than a no-nanny (well, less-nanny) Boss LS.

1ltcap

good points. normally i'd say it'll be a drivers race, but that's a little too big of a gap for that...........

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

A .3 loss at the strip looks ugly. And the faster the cars the uglier it looks.

If you want to see proof of some sort in the motor trend test of the 2010 gt500 vs the 2010 SS the SS ran a 12.9 to the gt500's 12.8. The ss was behind by something like 16 feet from only a .1 tenth difference (the guy talking on the vid gives the number of feet). Or you could use math. 110mph x 1.47 will give you 161.7. Divide that by 10 and you get the distance a car will cover in one tenth of a second at 110mph. 16.17 feet in .1 tenth of a second is covered at 110mph.

If you lose by .3 in a 1/4 racing two 12 second cars you are getting beat by quite a bit.

2.4 seconds...you would be wondering if the boss was still on the track lol. Bus lengths upon bus lengths behind. And that is just one lap lol. And are we forgetting the zl1 actually has all the proper cooling systems, braking systems etc to run an entire race? But I guess that is stupid and it is never mentioned by the ford fan boys...to think someone would actally go and do the stuff the car was designed for.....when you could pretend it could do it and buy a boss.

Irunelevens

So the slower car is now a "pretender?" I guess you must think the Corvette Grand Sport is a complete piece of ****... Hundreds of pounds lighter then the Mustang, yet slower around the track.

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

When was it tested on a road course against a grand sport on the same track on the same day with the same driver?

And yes...if it could not run an entire race it is a pretender. I was not talking about the speed at which the cars are running laps that makes them a pretender. But if they can actually do it or not. A car that is designed for the track such as the boss ls but does not actually have all the necessary pieces to do so would be a pretender...I would say the same for the corvette if in fact it could not do the same (havent looked into it)

It'llrun

Point us out a single individual who failed to realize this? Just one will do fine, thanks...

Oh, and it wasn't that Ford made such a big deal about the BOSS... The press did that for Ford. I don't recall seeing even 1 add on TV, for example, regarding the BOSS Mustang. I did, however, read about it in several magazine articles.

Then there's the laughable idea that you're somehow thinking the ZL1 isn't a purpose built track car. GM is all but screaming from the rooftops... "BARELY STREET LEGAL" is prominantly posted directly beneath the ZL1's photo. Then click to see more and you'll see the same phrase over the car... You'll eventually get to... "Built to be track-capable right from the showroom." and more. THIS CAR IS TRACK READY!!!! Yes, they are actually saying that right on their website...

Just think "what it" a frog had wings... Then get back to reality.

Maybe... For cars needing about 20 seconds to run the 1/4 mile... If 1 runs a 12.8 and another runs 12.9... That could be about 30 feet or nearly 2 car lengths. How friggin' slow is your car?

Even if it was only 3-5(and it's more like 25-30), there's a difference on a road course track in that, unlike a drag strip, laps aren't done in a "1 then wait till next time" fashion. Typically, this type of racing in multiple laps and in that case, you can only surmise the ZL1 would've only opened a wider gap with each consecutive lap.

So purpose built, in fact, GM has openly said it's sole purpose is to beat the Shelby GT500 in every aspect.

Actually... The "fox chassis" went on until the 2005 model replaced it... They called it the S/N 95 from 1994 on, but the chassis was essentially the same till the 2005 model. The 4.6 wasn't used in Mustangs, of course, till 1996 models. The idea was simple, really... Save money, period.
Going to 5.8L allowed much more power to be made with ease. That's the only reason I'd need.

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

Their was an entire show dedicted to the pruduction of the boss 302 on the speed channel. How they brought in the legendary parnelli jones to help design it etc etc. How it is the best handling mustang ever made...you name it they said it...right from the people designing the cars mouth.

And yes...the zl1 is actually track ready...look into it. Not much on the road today is ready for the track in such a way...but yet still delivers all the creature comforts and at a price of 55k. It is pretty amazing.

ThisBlood147

You know, it was so quiet around here when it was just the SS vs the GT/GT500/hell...even the Boss. Now the ZL1 shows up and suddenly it's all loud and unruly.

It'llrun

Uh huh... And? Most people don't have Speed channel...

Idonno why they'd bother bringing in Rufus... He's about as old as the sands of time and knows NOTHING about todays race car building, I'm sure. It ain't like 1960... It ain't like 1990 or 2000, let alone "his time" as a racer. He won his last race before about 80% of the people on this site were even conceived for goodness sake. I know he was "attached" to the 2007 "Parnelli Jones" Saleen model, but never heard about the same for the LS version. I read that he got one, but never heard he had a hand in development of any part/s. He's gotta be near 80 by now... He's not a racer these days by any stretch of the imagination.

After all I said about what GM is saying, you can't figure out that obviously, I have looked into it?

Oh, btw... It doesn't even come close to delivering "all" the creature comforts. It does offer plenty, but if you wonder what more it could offer, look into cars like Aston Martin, Jaguar, Porsche, MB, BMW and of course, Cadillac... All of which typically include items not found in any "Chevrolet" labeled vehicle. Yes, this car is highly advanced in terms of handling, but it's not like it has the greatest interior ever seen or like it's the most comfortable car ever...

I think the ZL1 might be highly underpriced. I've said as much before, and more. I believe it to be far and away the best performance non-Corvette GM has ever offered to the public. It flatly smokes every other factory production Camaro or F-body and doesn't even begin to look backward at all the models INSTANTLY deemed slow and archaic by its mere presence, including any other 2012 or older model. It makes the '69 ZL1 look like a joke on wheels, save the 1/4 mile itself. Even then, the old version would need slicks to keep up. Not 1969 slicks either... FRESH NEW SLICKS!

UltraZLS1

iTrader: (13)

Not sure how the speed channel not being on everyones tv defends your original statement of "it wasn't that Ford made such a big deal about the BOSS... The press did that for Ford. I don't recall seeing even 1 add on TV, for example, regarding the BOSS Mustang"

It was more than an add...an entire show. And it wasnt one ford guy...it was a large part of the team. But whatever...I dont really care. I just remembered the show so I thought I would throw it at your erroneous statement.

I couldnt tell if you were being sarcastic or not in regards to the zl1 being track ready.

It looked to me like you were mocking GM's statement about it being track ready. You just said because GM said so etc...you never backed up the statements with something that I could perceive as being non-sarcastic or condescending which would have led me to believe you knew the information personally.

My mistake. Sorry for not being a mind reader.

1ltcap

not forgetting about the coolers. ford makes you option them on(which i think is stupid). so you'll get a car that will be about the same price once you've optioned those things on.

1ltcap

yea i know that was still a fox chassis.....i just call it the sn95 to keep people happy. you wouldn't believe the arguments i've had with people that don't know crap about fords over that. lol

i never cared for the 4.6 liter, but if you look at them, they are actually very good engines, with a shitton of potential. they are not actually "V" engines, but rather a modern version of a "Y" block, with crossbolted mains. the 5 liter, and 5.8 liter are also.

SSCamaro99_3

iTrader: (1)

Laguna Seca is 2.238 miles around. The time I saw was 1:43.

(3600/103)*2.238 = 78.22 mph avg

(78.22*5280)/3600 = 114.72 ft/sec

114.72*2.45 = 281 feet of separation.......nearly a football field per lap.

If my numbers are wrong we can recalculate, I am working from memory.

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

Streets are going crazy on this subject.

1ltcap

you're welcome.

HardBlu

So far no one has convinced me the ZL1 is less capable of staying in the same class of the GT500 regardless of what year or 1324, or track. Since so many are convinced, the BOSS is also in this class with track ready hardware, so be it.

Lets' see ... Not listing aftermarket or dealer editions, (Roush, Yenko)

GM Camaro: SS, Z/28, RS, SS/RS, COPO, ZL1, IROC, IROC-Z, Type LT, Berlinetta, and Anniversary editions.


Ford Mustang:
Shelby GT-H
Shelby GT500KR
Shelby CS6/8
Shelby GT500E
Shelby GT500 "Super Snake"
Mustang Cobra II
King Cobra
Mustang SVT Cobra
Mustang SVO
Special Service Package (SSP)
Bullitt
Mach 1
Anniversary editions
1962 Ford Mustang I concept
1993 Ford Mustang Mach III concept
2005 Ford Mustang GT concept
2005 Mustang GT-R Concept

How did we ever stack rank and compare these models...we didn't we drove them like we stole them.

firebird99

iTrader: (2)

I wasnt talking about only the people on this site it was more of a general statement so dont get so butt hurt unless your one of them.

And yes the zl1 is a track ready car but it gives up nothing in order to do so unlike the mustang ls which you lose the back seat and have track tires which god forebid you get caught in the rain or wanna daily drive it.

Now for your "frogs have wings" i guess my comment wasnt the same as the people who cried "what if the ls had more power" huh?

firechicken_98

iTrader: (8)

I think there are a few misconception on here. Having owned both an F-body and now a GT500, I think I can speak objectionably here.

The ZL1 was built to compete with the GT500. I thought that was the whole point. If you want to argue price points, they both cost ~$55k, both have supercharged engines, both make similar power (well, until the 13 comes out).

The GT500 > Boss. I don't care what the bought and paid for magazines say. The GT500 does beat the Boss in the 1/4 and on most tracks.

Why didn't MotorTrend compare the ZL1 to the GT500? I think it was for a few reasons:
1. I think the performance figures from a 12 GT500 would be too close to the ZL1. With the 13 GT500 due out this spring, with more power and better suspension, you do the math.

2. The Boss got a lot of hype recently, so beating that would make the ZL1 look bigger and badder.

3. To stir up controversy and get ratings.


A couple other points and misconceptions about the GT500. I have a 10. Stock on street tires I ran a best of 12.6 @ 114 1.98 60' at Atlanta Dragway in 100+ degree heat. It was so hot that day your feet were burning with shoes on standing on the pavement.

With 18" MT drag radials, pulley, tune, and UCA/LCA's I've ran a best of 11.92 @ 122 1.92 60' at SGMP in 78 degree weather. Obviously, hooking is a big issue. My Formula used to run 11.4's @118 on 1.7 60'.

Heat soak is a big issue with these cars. Once they get heat soaked you can subtract about 100 hp no kidding. The computer pulls all the timing and power out.

Stock my car dyno'd at 496/488. With pulley and tune I dyno'd at 544/530.

The car weighs 4050 with me sitting in it. I weigh ~180, so 3870 without driver. My Formula weighed 3750 with me in it.

Hope that helps some.

MasterTomos

iTrader: (15)

If you drove the '62 Mustang I and '93 Mustang Mach3 concepts, you probably did steal them haven't seen too many of those on the streets.


I dont think you covered anything that really

a). hasn't already been covered/speculated
b). has anything to do with this thread