Camaro Chief Engineer on the LSA ZL1 vs 2013 5.8L GT500
01-22-2012, 12:03 PM
#41
On paper there is no debate but races don't happen on paper. How many high horsepower cars have you seen lose to cars with less power because they had the right combination of driver mod and traction? I see it all the time and it's always funny when a 500HP car beats a 700HP car, hell for the sake of the argument I beat a few high hp cars in my trans am when it wasn't making much power. Once these two cars are on the strip together we will see what happens.
01-22-2012, 12:16 PM
#42
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Meh, all they have to do is buy a set of tires and they won't have a problem. 2011/12 GT500s still have a better power/weight ratio then the ZL1 does, which is pretty sad on Chevys part for not even beating the current car.
01-22-2012, 02:50 PM
#43
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since when did we all become autocross warriors???? thats the only argument GM has been claiming, "the ZL1 is faster at the Nürburgring..." who gives a flyin flip if its faster at the Nürburgring, most people here are gonna drag race it, and to that point, it will get its *** dragged down the track by the GT500.
Half-assing a car to make it go only fast in a straight line you'll end up with a plastic box with a big engine, a stereotypical american car, were trying to get away from that reputation, to say we make "all around" great cars.
01-22-2012, 03:00 PM
#44
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It's a horrible debate though. Driver matters more at a track like the ring then the car does, and Chevy has an awesome driver.
I think it's funny how this guy keeps trying to defend the ZL1 against a car that hasn't been released yet, while all Ford has said is they made it to increase the gap between the Boss and the GT500. I think that shows that this guy already knows the ZL1 is going to get its *** handed to it everywhere.
I can't recall the last time the chief engineer of a car was bench racing his car against one that hasn't come out yet, only to talk about how much better his car is then one he and nobody else hasn't tested.
I think it's funny how this guy keeps trying to defend the ZL1 against a car that hasn't been released yet, while all Ford has said is they made it to increase the gap between the Boss and the GT500. I think that shows that this guy already knows the ZL1 is going to get its *** handed to it everywhere.
I can't recall the last time the chief engineer of a car was bench racing his car against one that hasn't come out yet, only to talk about how much better his car is then one he and nobody else hasn't tested.
Not Vipers, Ferraris, Lambos, Porsches, Zondas ect.? Ford can't find another "good" driver? You have funny logics
01-22-2012, 03:23 PM
#45
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I have funny logics? How can you say Ring times have any weight in a debate when they are done by different drivers on different days? And we are talking about an almost 13 mile race track here, where I would bet a great driver could easily have a 10-20sec difference between his own laps. The only thing Ring times are good for is fuel for a fanboys fire.
01-22-2012, 05:01 PM
#46
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I have funny logics? How can you say Ring times have any weight in a debate when they are done by different drivers on different days? And we are talking about an almost 13 mile race track here, where I would bet a great driver could easily have a 10-20sec difference between his own laps. The only thing Ring times are good for is fuel for a fanboys fire.
a.you think GM has THE ONE only good driver that can do a lap? Ford doesn't have "good" drivers? and
b. you don't think they hold their cars tests for days that the weather is clear? So it gives the best lap result to brag about to the media? You are 100% incorrect to think Ford(or any company) doesn't wouldn't even out the playing field, that's why you've got funny logic.
All the sudden it's 75 and sunny at the Ring when GM is testing with their test driver michael shoemaker vs. Ford testing in a hail and an 87yr old grandma driving their GT500?
Stop denying the fact that the Ring is a wold wide respectable bench mark for a reason...
01-22-2012, 05:04 PM
#47
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Even if the GT500 wins at the strip but loses Ring, ZL1 still wins, because it shows it's overall ability.
I'm not talking ish, I'm just saying "what-ifs". Because the Ring is respected around the world, where as drag-strips are mainly for america.
I'm not talking ish, I'm just saying "what-ifs". Because the Ring is respected around the world, where as drag-strips are mainly for america.
01-22-2012, 05:23 PM
#49
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The simple fact is that this is all for bragging rights, my car is better than your car ect. Even if I don't go to the ring, I'd like to know that my car is faster in a OVERALL test versus just acceleration.
Are you gonna do 200+ mph top speed of the GT500 on the road? Maybe... but majority wont actually, it's the principle of the fact that "My car can do XYZ" ect.
Are you gonna do 200+ mph top speed of the GT500 on the road? Maybe... but majority wont actually, it's the principle of the fact that "My car can do XYZ" ect.
01-22-2012, 05:35 PM
#50
What good is it knowing its faster OVERALL if you would'nt be able to exploit it...just as you stated. We dont even know if the ZL1 will be faster than the 2012 GT500, muchless the 2013.
01-22-2012, 05:40 PM
#51
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You have funny logic because
a.you think GM has THE ONE only good driver that can do a lap? Ford doesn't have "good" drivers? and
b. you don't think they hold their cars tests for days that the weather is clear? So it gives the best lap result to brag about to the media? You are 100% incorrect to think Ford(or any company) doesn't wouldn't even out the playing field, that's why you've got funny logic.
All the sudden it's 75 and sunny at the Ring when GM is testing with their test driver michael shoemaker vs. Ford testing in a hail and an 87yr old grandma driving their GT500?
Stop denying the fact that the Ring is a wold wide respectable bench mark for a reason...
a.you think GM has THE ONE only good driver that can do a lap? Ford doesn't have "good" drivers? and
b. you don't think they hold their cars tests for days that the weather is clear? So it gives the best lap result to brag about to the media? You are 100% incorrect to think Ford(or any company) doesn't wouldn't even out the playing field, that's why you've got funny logic.
All the sudden it's 75 and sunny at the Ring when GM is testing with their test driver michael shoemaker vs. Ford testing in a hail and an 87yr old grandma driving their GT500?
Stop denying the fact that the Ring is a wold wide respectable bench mark for a reason...
I never said Ford had a shitty driver and GM a great one, simply that GMs driver is more than likely better as the ZR1 and Z06 have posted some amazing times. And I never said they were testing on days where the weather was shitty for one and good for the other, but 75 and sunny for both days doesn't mean the track is going to be in the same condition. It doesn't matter even if they both have great drivers, like I said even with the same driver around a THIRTEEN MILE road course is going to have a fairly large difference in time one lap to the next, you are talking two different drivers on two different days.
I don't think any educated gear head, regardless of where they are from, is going to use Ring times as an argument for which car is better. Nutswinggers and fanboys, yes, but true car guys are smart enough to know they are useless.
01-22-2012, 06:32 PM
#55
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01-22-2012, 06:34 PM
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I never said Ford had a shitty driver and GM a great one, simply that GMs driver is more than likely better as the ZR1 and Z06 have posted some amazing times. And I never said they were testing on days where the weather was shitty for one and good for the other, but 75 and sunny for both days doesn't mean the track is going to be in the same condition. It doesn't matter even if they both have great drivers, like I said even with the same driver around a THIRTEEN MILE road course is going to have a fairly large difference in time one lap to the next, you are talking two different drivers on two different days.
I don't think any educated gear head, regardless of where they are from, is going to use Ring times as an argument for which car is better. Nutswinggers and fanboys, yes, but true car guys are smart enough to know they are useless.
I don't think any educated gear head, regardless of where they are from, is going to use Ring times as an argument for which car is better. Nutswinggers and fanboys, yes, but true car guys are smart enough to know they are useless.
01-23-2012, 05:02 AM
#59
Let it go, obviously the car doesn't appeal to you. Someone who likes to autocross their car on any given time or drive the car hard and still have a warranty, are the ones who take those numbers into account. People who like to push they're cars to the limits will take those numbers into account. And going from your logic why would anyone buy a Ferrari? Very few owners will actually push those cars to their limit.
