Road and Track ZL1 vs GT500
. Why don't you go and make yourself busy swapping a mod motor in your vette? They're awesome and you need one.
08-01-2012, 06:28 PM
#42
TECH Senior Member
You can tell by watching the cars that the Shelby is much less predictable. In a couple of spots in the vid is was pushing like a dump truck right into a snap loose situation. That's the chassis giving up. Tires could mask it for a while. But more than likely it would aggravate it once wear started.
For example simply changing out the stock shocks for some Konis on a 4th gen fbody take the car from handling like an S10 pickup to handling like a composed, predictable sports car.
08-01-2012, 08:19 PM
#43
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Not defending the GT500 but theres far too much going on to simply say the "chassis is giving up". Suspension geometry, wheel rates (spring rates, shock rates, bumpstop rates, swaybar rates, bushing rates etc.), then factor in the solid axle and how that behaves with the given suspension. Far too many variables to point at one. They likely made the rear suspension a little too stiff.
For example simply changing out the stock shocks for some Konis on a 4th gen fbody take the car from handling like an S10 pickup to handling like a composed, predictable sports car.
For example simply changing out the stock shocks for some Konis on a 4th gen fbody take the car from handling like an S10 pickup to handling like a composed, predictable sports car.
Definitely not a good comparison on your part on the 4th gen, a car designed in the early 90's I would expect to need some help. Especially with a $15k starting price.
The facts are this, Ford put a monster motor in their car. GM put a good motor in their with a great chassis(could be better if lighter but we all know this, it is what it is). I can make up that 80hp easier than you can the Mustang to handle with the Camaro.
Last edited by HioSSilver; 08-01-2012 at 09:03 PM.
08-01-2012, 08:56 PM
#44
TECH Senior Member
Definitely not a good comparison on your part on the 4th gen, a car designed in the early 90's I would expect to need some help. Especially with a $15k starting price.
Ford may have comprised with some of the suspension resulting in what you see in the vid (just like GM really compromised with the Fbodies decarbon shocks).
08-01-2012, 09:12 PM
#45
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
There is a bit more to that car than needing shocks. Could something else help it?? maybe. But it may be at the sacrifice of ride. I'm sure ford did what they could with what they had in that department, but it's never gonna be a IRS car. I've watched all the vids I could find on tests of these 2 cars. There is also some in car of them, the Camaro is just much smoother handling car that ready for a set of r-compound tires to let her really rip. It looks just that composed on track, the Ford doesn't. But it does a hell of a job making up for it on the straights. If the 2 were matched in power it would exploit the Mustang chassis to the point that you would say what a pos.
08-01-2012, 09:17 PM
#46
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eau Claire-ish, WI
Posts: 853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats arguably wrong, the Mustang, just like any other performance car out there was built ground up for their performance trim (in this case the Coyotee V8, in the Camaro's case an LS3, 4th gens case the LS1 etc etc). Then striped down for their "base" model. They didn't make a V6 then decide to throw a V8 in it later, if anything its the other way around.
08-01-2012, 09:34 PM
#47
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
I'm sure they were both designed with a v8 in mind. But there is no doubt that with the starting price there are also compromises made to get them in the target price range. Do you think ford don't make money on a v6 car?
Ps....how's that mod motor vette swap goin?
Ps....how's that mod motor vette swap goin?
08-01-2012, 09:47 PM
#48
***Repost Police***
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.
Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.
The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.
Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.
The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.
08-01-2012, 09:51 PM
#49
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Considered a new platform by Ford Motor Company, D2C is loosely based on the Ford DEW platform which served as the basis for the Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type."
At the end of the day regardless of where the cars started nothing matters but how it finishes and Chevy has provin it's chassis and suspension to be top dawg as ford has done the same in the motor department stock vs stock that is.
08-01-2012, 10:43 PM
#51
TECH Resident
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eau Claire-ish, WI
Posts: 853
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08-01-2012, 11:03 PM
#54
***Repost Police***
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 2,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know exactly what it is. It's a bigger 5.0 with forged internals. Ford did a great job on it. But mod for mod the bigger motor will win. And upping the boost on the ZL is gonna make a huge difference.
Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.
The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.
Also fyi.....I don't car what either makes on race gas. So putting a splash in one or the other is not in the conversation.
The lsa has been in the cts-v.....it gets to the 10's pretty slick in a bigger heavier car. Last time at the track I watched a stock auto CTS-v go a 12.1 on just a dr.....and out run the 5.4 gt 500.
08-02-2012, 09:42 AM
#58
TECH Apprentice
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That you didn't, and still don't know WTF you are talking about.
You wouldn't happen to be a member of camaro5, would you? If not you should join. Lots of blind fanboi-ism over there for you to agree with.
You wouldn't happen to be a member of camaro5, would you? If not you should join. Lots of blind fanboi-ism over there for you to agree with.
08-02-2012, 11:11 AM
#59
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Nice try.
08-02-2012, 11:58 AM
#60
They are commenting on what you said about the 5.8 Trinity engine being a bigger 5.0 Coyote. It is not. The 5.0 Coyote only share bore spacing, deck height, rod length, and bellhousing patterns with the older modular engine. The 5.8 Trinity is based off of the tall deck 5.4 block in order to fit the 4.165 in stroke.