2005 Mustang Sales report.... Sticker too much to pay?
#1
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 Mustang Sales report.... Sticker too much to pay?
Despite strong demand, Mustang buyers won't pay over sticker
Article from Autoweek: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101223
Now I could point to half a dozen reasons why I think this is the case, but all that aside this does not bode well for the "Pony car/Muscle car" market. The GTO and CTS-V aren't exactly flying out of the showroom either, so I have to wonder if a greater problem with the market is to blame. What's more I have to wonder what lower than expected demand for the CTS-V, GTO, and new Mustang are going to do to the future Camaro and next gen GTO?
Myself personally? I think when you have cars like the G35, Acura TL and Chrysler 300C that are all quality automobiles with strong performance (we sort of live in an 11 Sec fantasy world at LS1Tech, the rest of the world considers 14 seconds to be "really fast"), it marginalizes the need to sacrifice practicality, quality, features, etc to have a car that runs a half second quicker in the Qtr mile. Thoughts? Anyone else agree?
Then there are those that "ARE" looking for the super fast cars, and I think many of those are going to the EVO and WRX STi. I've seen a ton of those on the road, and it's impossible to argue that they aren't modern muscle cars since they run as fast as a stock LS1 or Mustang Cobra in the Qtr mile, and destroy us in the twisties, and I ahve to admit they're easy as hell to modify.
I'm begining to wonder if the only market left for a true Mustang, Camaro, GTO is going to be those that just "want" a car like that, while the masses who are looking for great performance will gravitate towards the extremes of EVO/STi on one end and the 300C, TL & G35 on the other.
I sort of see the GTO and Mustang as percipitating into the middle and the market there doesn't seam to be as strong. All that said it will be interesting to see what happens when Pontiac offers the first affordable 400hp motor to the masses with the GTO. (Yes I know the Cobra makes that sort of power, but it was never marketed at an even 400, I think that's fairly big in the minds of the consumer).
-Adam
Article from Autoweek: http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101223
Now I could point to half a dozen reasons why I think this is the case, but all that aside this does not bode well for the "Pony car/Muscle car" market. The GTO and CTS-V aren't exactly flying out of the showroom either, so I have to wonder if a greater problem with the market is to blame. What's more I have to wonder what lower than expected demand for the CTS-V, GTO, and new Mustang are going to do to the future Camaro and next gen GTO?
Myself personally? I think when you have cars like the G35, Acura TL and Chrysler 300C that are all quality automobiles with strong performance (we sort of live in an 11 Sec fantasy world at LS1Tech, the rest of the world considers 14 seconds to be "really fast"), it marginalizes the need to sacrifice practicality, quality, features, etc to have a car that runs a half second quicker in the Qtr mile. Thoughts? Anyone else agree?
Then there are those that "ARE" looking for the super fast cars, and I think many of those are going to the EVO and WRX STi. I've seen a ton of those on the road, and it's impossible to argue that they aren't modern muscle cars since they run as fast as a stock LS1 or Mustang Cobra in the Qtr mile, and destroy us in the twisties, and I ahve to admit they're easy as hell to modify.
I'm begining to wonder if the only market left for a true Mustang, Camaro, GTO is going to be those that just "want" a car like that, while the masses who are looking for great performance will gravitate towards the extremes of EVO/STi on one end and the 300C, TL & G35 on the other.
I sort of see the GTO and Mustang as percipitating into the middle and the market there doesn't seam to be as strong. All that said it will be interesting to see what happens when Pontiac offers the first affordable 400hp motor to the masses with the GTO. (Yes I know the Cobra makes that sort of power, but it was never marketed at an even 400, I think that's fairly big in the minds of the consumer).
-Adam
#2
My friend works for a local Fuuuuuuuuurd dealer. They got in 4 Mud-stain GT's...all sold within 1 day at sticker.
I'm not sure what your point is...you shift from your subject with regard to customers paying over sticker, then talk about imports and then back to american made cars.
I'm not sure what your point is...you shift from your subject with regard to customers paying over sticker, then talk about imports and then back to american made cars.
#3
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by NOSjohn
My friend works for a local Fuuuuuuuuurd dealer. They got in 4 Mud-stain GT's...all sold within 1 day at sticker.
I'm not sure what your point is...you shift from your subject with regard to customers paying over sticker, then talk about imports and then back to american made cars.
I'm not sure what your point is...you shift from your subject with regard to customers paying over sticker, then talk about imports and then back to american made cars.
While I personally do not like the new Mustang GT that much, I really want to see it sell like gang busters so that GM sees a strong market for the Camaro. GM understands (and has said as much numerous times) that the "Pony Car" market is only so big and that adding models only decreases the size of the slices of the pie rather than making the pie itself any larger.
-Adam
#4
Ah, now I see. Autoweek is a joke. They can only theorize because they aren't out and around visually grasping who and what is selling. I find that an issue with some large magazines. Their writers exploit too much of their own theory and/or opinion, then people read it and it's supposed to be gospel.
From what I've seen, and I'm not a Furd advocate, they are selling like hot-cakes. The local dealer had to bring in a red one from a bigger dealership in PA, due to them (the local dealership) not being able to keep them in stock.
From what I've seen, and I'm not a Furd advocate, they are selling like hot-cakes. The local dealer had to bring in a red one from a bigger dealership in PA, due to them (the local dealership) not being able to keep them in stock.
#6
FormerVendor
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NW H-Town, TX
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dom
The dealers are responsible for slow GTO sales. They're overpriced to begin with then dealers sold them for way over sticker. Reminds me when they were selling SSs for $33K.
#7
TECH Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ Hometown: Aberdeen, SD
Posts: 4,231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Coupes are not strong sellers in North America, that's why the new Dodge Charger has four doors (and it also comes with a standard V6). The only exception to the rule has been the Mustang, otherwise people here simply don't buy coupes in droves.
I wouldn't pay sticker for just about any new, fairly mainstream car either, it's almost never worth it. If GM sold the Ute SS or Ford sold the Falcon XR6T here then I may be persuaded...
I wouldn't pay sticker for just about any new, fairly mainstream car either, it's almost never worth it. If GM sold the Ute SS or Ford sold the Falcon XR6T here then I may be persuaded...
Trending Topics
#8
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, coupe sales are actually quite strong (G35, 350Z, 330/325Ci, etc), and I think you all are missing the point of the article, because Ford has set such a precedent of "Don't pay sticker" on all their other lines, people are expecting the same from teh rest of the brand as well. I'm sure Mustang sales are going to be high volume as well, but you'll notice the Autoweek article is pointing to how cars like the PT Cruiser and 350Z were able to maintain sticker for a long period of time, while the Mustang is already being sold at discount. This doesn't bode well for the long haul of that car. (Which has only been out for maybe two months?) If memory serves two months after the GTO hit showrooms, Pontiac dealers were still asking over sticker for those cars, a year later and we're seeing astoundingly deep discounts on the GTO. If the 2005 Mustang (A banner model, and the first clean sheet design sinc ethe Carter administration) is starting off discounted, then the price was too high to begin with.
#9
Ford should do what the chrysler group has done with the 300C..
Raise the price of the car for a grand...then give a thousand dollar discount.
I like the mustang. 26 grand its a hell of a car.
IMHO
Raise the price of the car for a grand...then give a thousand dollar discount.
I like the mustang. 26 grand its a hell of a car.
IMHO
#12
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dom
I wonder if this has anything to do with the winter coming and the market in general for sports cars sucks right now. It's pretty bad for all cars, but even more so for RWD sports coupes.
Keep in mind too that
EVO = Mercedes/Chrysler
STi = GM
So we're not totally off the table, however I'm worried about the sluggish GTO/2005 Mustang GT sales being an indicator for how GM will approach the next gen Camaro. Many have said the Camaro was was behind the Mutang in sales because it was too performance focused, whereas the Mustang was easier to live with. I have to admit my M3 is almost an identical foot print lay out to a SN95 Mustang, and I'm finding it much easier to live with than my Firebird. (getting in and out, having a real trunk, etc).
I think the GTO is going down the right path, but at too high of a price point, I might be willing to give up some of the GTo's straight line performance for the Luxury/Handling of a G35 or Luxury/practicality of a 300C or Acura TL. If the GTO is going to be a sales success I think it really needs more amenities (and a service department on par with Infiniti) I'm sure that the 2007 GTO is going to be a home run and will address many of my own complaints about the car, but I'm guess what I'm saying is that in order to be a smashing success it needs to beat the competition in Performance and Luxury.
The Mustang OTOH is lower end, but it really isn't that remarkable in either performance or luxury and to that end I think there are better deals out there.
Maybe the new Cobra will just be a smoking bad-*** (fingers crossed).
-Adam, rambling incoherent fool
Last edited by Shinkaze; 11-22-2004 at 09:52 AM.
#13
Originally Posted by Shinkaze
No, coupe sales are actually quite strong (G35, 350Z, 330/325Ci, etc), and I think you all are missing the point of the article, because Ford has set such a precedent of "Don't pay sticker" on all their other lines, people are expecting the same from teh rest of the brand as well. I'm sure Mustang sales are going to be high volume as well, but you'll notice the Autoweek article is pointing to how cars like the PT Cruiser and 350Z were able to maintain sticker for a long period of time, while the Mustang is already being sold at discount. This doesn't bode well for the long haul of that car. (Which has only been out for maybe two months?) If memory serves two months after the GTO hit showrooms, Pontiac dealers were still asking over sticker for those cars, a year later and we're seeing astoundingly deep discounts on the GTO. If the 2005 Mustang (A banner model, and the first clean sheet design sinc ethe Carter administration) is starting off discounted, then the price was too high to begin with.
I've yet to see one priced sold below MSRP, and in fact most are still paying a 1k-3k markup. Every dealer my wife and I have talked to have no plans to drop below MSRP anytime soon. BTW, I live just north of Atlanta so if you see one priced below MSRP let me know and I'll probably buy it!
#14
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MSI
Mustang is already being sold at a discount???
I've yet to see one priced sold below MSRP, and in fact most are still paying a 1k-3k markup. Every dealer my wife and I have talked to have no plans to drop below MSRP anytime soon. BTW, I live just north of Atlanta so if you see one priced below MSRP let me know and I'll probably buy it!
I've yet to see one priced sold below MSRP, and in fact most are still paying a 1k-3k markup. Every dealer my wife and I have talked to have no plans to drop below MSRP anytime soon. BTW, I live just north of Atlanta so if you see one priced below MSRP let me know and I'll probably buy it!
-Adam
#15
Originally Posted by Shinkaze
Yea, you'll have to get away from Atlanta to get a deal on anything. Heck when I was looking at an M3, Global BMW is *STILL* charging over sticker for the car and it's been out since 2001! anyhow the Autoweek article said they're seeing the deals cropping up on Ebay and Autotrader where dealers are already listing the cars at discount.
-Adam
-Adam
#16
LS1Tech Co-Founder
iTrader: (34)
New style is just out, and folks will pay sticker just to have it. When dealers have a ton of them the prices will go down... Same as any car.
Folks will pay 20's for a sporty v8 with some kick, but not pay mid 30's for a car without navi, and other amenities.
Folks will pay 20's for a sporty v8 with some kick, but not pay mid 30's for a car without navi, and other amenities.
#17
c6 corvette coupe is already running 2500 to 3 grand discounts..
After the "new" wears off...
The mustangs will be discounted...
Next year when higher performance versions begin to hit the showrooms..
The GT's price will drop for sure.
IMHO
After the "new" wears off...
The mustangs will be discounted...
Next year when higher performance versions begin to hit the showrooms..
The GT's price will drop for sure.
IMHO
#19
TECH Addict
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by y2k_ta
The Mustang will sell. Look how much positive press it got after the concept came out. Like the production version or not, the car still has quite a following. I personally don't think it'll have any trouble selling.
-Adam
#20
One reason why I think people aren't paying over sticker because the car would not be worth it for 30 grand.
My family has a 300c. We bought it for sticker (34,995). Reason being, it was priced correctly. As a dealer, you can only go above sticker if the car is worth more than that. If the car was 40 grand, a 5 series/E-class would have been worth looking at and people will get that over a brand new Chyrsler. This is still a Ford, for 30 grand you can get a BMW coupe and the masses will get that instead of a Ford.
Cars that can go for above sticker realistically are the ones that were priced too low from the factory.
I think GM has to really figure out what to do with the Camaro. I really do think it should be a low production car of strictly V-8's because I do not see people buying them if they didn't want exactly what it gives.
My family has a 300c. We bought it for sticker (34,995). Reason being, it was priced correctly. As a dealer, you can only go above sticker if the car is worth more than that. If the car was 40 grand, a 5 series/E-class would have been worth looking at and people will get that over a brand new Chyrsler. This is still a Ford, for 30 grand you can get a BMW coupe and the masses will get that instead of a Ford.
Cars that can go for above sticker realistically are the ones that were priced too low from the factory.
I think GM has to really figure out what to do with the Camaro. I really do think it should be a low production car of strictly V-8's because I do not see people buying them if they didn't want exactly what it gives.