GTR Unveiled
11-05-2007, 06:39 PM
#61
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See, you guys are trying pin the tail on the donkey... It's not going to happen... Those definitions aren't etched in stone anywhere and they're used VERY LOOSELY for all the cars you guys just mentioned by writers in the industry. 
Trust me please.
Trust me please.
11-05-2007, 06:47 PM
#62
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I don't know about you guys, but the GT-R looks pretty killer in red there...way better than the metallic tones if you ask me. I don't know, the car just strikes me as more of an M3 competitor than a Corvette competitor...
Actually, from what I understand of it, the Skyline GT-R was always considered something of a Muscle car in Japan until about halfway through the R33 bodystyle. This car really is a monster for them over there where you have Mitsubishi "i"s and Toyota Vitz's as "normal" cars. The Camry is considered a powerful, large full-sizer there if that brings some perspective to things, in fact, anything over 170hp or so is considered fairly brawny....
Actually, from what I understand of it, the Skyline GT-R was always considered something of a Muscle car in Japan until about halfway through the R33 bodystyle. This car really is a monster for them over there where you have Mitsubishi "i"s and Toyota Vitz's as "normal" cars. The Camry is considered a powerful, large full-sizer there if that brings some perspective to things, in fact, anything over 170hp or so is considered fairly brawny....
11-05-2007, 07:11 PM
#63
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About 95% of Supercars or higher are exotics, but about 30% or so of exotics are supercars. Take for example the 997 Porsche 911 GT3. That's a very exotic car, but hardly what I'd call a supercar.
Well what about the Z06? It's a supercar, but hardly exotic. In fact, the Z06 Corvettes are one of the rare exceptions to the rule of most supercars being exotics.
Then there are the Jaguar XJ220 or McLaren F1 which are very exotic AND supercars. I could go on with examples, but you guys get the picture.
Regarding the GT-R, most of us won't consider it an exotic because of its (supposedly nonexistant) ties with the old Skyline GT-Rs, and the fact that they aren't anything particularly new or exotic around the world. In fact, although the GT-R has a racy body, it doesn't even get my heart going like a NISMO 350Z or 300ZX twin turbo would. It just isn't sexy, squat, and extroverted enough to be a true exotic car. That, combined with the fact that it is a Nissan, a VERY mundane brand historically makes a hard case for exotic status.
Also, and this is purely my opinion, I think that most supercar and exotic car purists find the AWD to be a perceived weakness. If a car cannot put the kind of numbers down the GT-R is with just the rear two wheels, then the front two are nothing but a crutch for a badly designed super car. The GT-R should be able to do the things it does without AWD or it doesn't belong in the Supercar club. This is why Evolution Lancers and STi's don't get supercar status. If Nissan really wanted to prove that the GT-R was hot ****, they would've introduced it as a 2wd with the performance it has now AND THEN add AWD later to make it an even hotter car(ala Porsche, Lamborghini). By using AWD from the get-go, the supercar community kind of shuns the GT-R as a decent performer, but with no room for growth and with nothing left in its bag of tricks. It makes one wonder what an AWD Corvette Z06/ZR1 could do....
I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I'd like to discuss this further, so no hot tempers!
11-05-2007, 10:25 PM
#64
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Concerning the "definition," yours is the closest by far to mine for these kinds of cars I've ever read... I feel the same. Despite what is both our sentiments, however, there are a lot of journalists that differ from us.
11-06-2007, 03:07 PM
#65
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It's all relative to each of the world markets, really, but here is something of an explaination.
About 95% of Supercars or higher are exotics, but about 30% or so of exotics are supercars. Take for example the 997 Porsche 911 GT3. That's a very exotic car, but hardly what I'd call a supercar.
Well what about the Z06? It's a supercar, but hardly exotic. In fact, the Z06 Corvettes are one of the rare exceptions to the rule of most supercars being exotics.
Then there are the Jaguar XJ220 or McLaren F1 which are very exotic AND supercars. I could go on with examples, but you guys get the picture.
Regarding the GT-R, most of us won't consider it an exotic because of its (supposedly nonexistant) ties with the old Skyline GT-Rs, and the fact that they aren't anything particularly new or exotic around the world. In fact, although the GT-R has a racy body, it doesn't even get my heart going like a NISMO 350Z or 300ZX twin turbo would. It just isn't sexy, squat, and extroverted enough to be a true exotic car. That, combined with the fact that it is a Nissan, a VERY mundane brand historically makes a hard case for exotic status.
Also, and this is purely my opinion, I think that most supercar and exotic car purists find the AWD to be a perceived weakness. If a car cannot put the kind of numbers down the GT-R is with just the rear two wheels, then the front two are nothing but a crutch for a badly designed super car. The GT-R should be able to do the things it does without AWD or it doesn't belong in the Supercar club. This is why Evolution Lancers and STi's don't get supercar status. If Nissan really wanted to prove that the GT-R was hot ****, they would've introduced it as a 2wd with the performance it has now AND THEN add AWD later to make it an even hotter car(ala Porsche, Lamborghini). By using AWD from the get-go, the supercar community kind of shuns the GT-R as a decent performer, but with no room for growth and with nothing left in its bag of tricks. It makes one wonder what an AWD Corvette Z06/ZR1 could do....
I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I'd like to discuss this further, so no hot tempers!
About 95% of Supercars or higher are exotics, but about 30% or so of exotics are supercars. Take for example the 997 Porsche 911 GT3. That's a very exotic car, but hardly what I'd call a supercar.
Well what about the Z06? It's a supercar, but hardly exotic. In fact, the Z06 Corvettes are one of the rare exceptions to the rule of most supercars being exotics.
Then there are the Jaguar XJ220 or McLaren F1 which are very exotic AND supercars. I could go on with examples, but you guys get the picture.
Regarding the GT-R, most of us won't consider it an exotic because of its (supposedly nonexistant) ties with the old Skyline GT-Rs, and the fact that they aren't anything particularly new or exotic around the world. In fact, although the GT-R has a racy body, it doesn't even get my heart going like a NISMO 350Z or 300ZX twin turbo would. It just isn't sexy, squat, and extroverted enough to be a true exotic car. That, combined with the fact that it is a Nissan, a VERY mundane brand historically makes a hard case for exotic status.
Also, and this is purely my opinion, I think that most supercar and exotic car purists find the AWD to be a perceived weakness. If a car cannot put the kind of numbers down the GT-R is with just the rear two wheels, then the front two are nothing but a crutch for a badly designed super car. The GT-R should be able to do the things it does without AWD or it doesn't belong in the Supercar club. This is why Evolution Lancers and STi's don't get supercar status. If Nissan really wanted to prove that the GT-R was hot ****, they would've introduced it as a 2wd with the performance it has now AND THEN add AWD later to make it an even hotter car(ala Porsche, Lamborghini). By using AWD from the get-go, the supercar community kind of shuns the GT-R as a decent performer, but with no room for growth and with nothing left in its bag of tricks. It makes one wonder what an AWD Corvette Z06/ZR1 could do....
I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I'd like to discuss this further, so no hot tempers!
11-06-2007, 05:35 PM
#66
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It's all relative to each of the world markets, really, but here is something of an explaination.
About 95% of Supercars or higher are exotics, but about 30% or so of exotics are supercars. Take for example the 997 Porsche 911 GT3. That's a very exotic car, but hardly what I'd call a supercar.
Well what about the Z06? It's a supercar, but hardly exotic. In fact, the Z06 Corvettes are one of the rare exceptions to the rule of most supercars being exotics.
Then there are the Jaguar XJ220 or McLaren F1 which are very exotic AND supercars. I could go on with examples, but you guys get the picture.
Regarding the GT-R, most of us won't consider it an exotic because of its (supposedly nonexistant) ties with the old Skyline GT-Rs, and the fact that they aren't anything particularly new or exotic around the world. In fact, although the GT-R has a racy body, it doesn't even get my heart going like a NISMO 350Z or 300ZX twin turbo would. It just isn't sexy, squat, and extroverted enough to be a true exotic car. That, combined with the fact that it is a Nissan, a VERY mundane brand historically makes a hard case for exotic status.
Also, and this is purely my opinion, I think that most supercar and exotic car purists find the AWD to be a perceived weakness. If a car cannot put the kind of numbers down the GT-R is with just the rear two wheels, then the front two are nothing but a crutch for a badly designed super car. The GT-R should be able to do the things it does without AWD or it doesn't belong in the Supercar club. This is why Evolution Lancers and STi's don't get supercar status. If Nissan really wanted to prove that the GT-R was hot ****, they would've introduced it as a 2wd with the performance it has now AND THEN add AWD later to make it an even hotter car(ala Porsche, Lamborghini). By using AWD from the get-go, the supercar community kind of shuns the GT-R as a decent performer, but with no room for growth and with nothing left in its bag of tricks. It makes one wonder what an AWD Corvette Z06/ZR1 could do....
I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I'd like to discuss this further, so no hot tempers!
About 95% of Supercars or higher are exotics, but about 30% or so of exotics are supercars. Take for example the 997 Porsche 911 GT3. That's a very exotic car, but hardly what I'd call a supercar.
Well what about the Z06? It's a supercar, but hardly exotic. In fact, the Z06 Corvettes are one of the rare exceptions to the rule of most supercars being exotics.
Then there are the Jaguar XJ220 or McLaren F1 which are very exotic AND supercars. I could go on with examples, but you guys get the picture.
Regarding the GT-R, most of us won't consider it an exotic because of its (supposedly nonexistant) ties with the old Skyline GT-Rs, and the fact that they aren't anything particularly new or exotic around the world. In fact, although the GT-R has a racy body, it doesn't even get my heart going like a NISMO 350Z or 300ZX twin turbo would. It just isn't sexy, squat, and extroverted enough to be a true exotic car. That, combined with the fact that it is a Nissan, a VERY mundane brand historically makes a hard case for exotic status.
Also, and this is purely my opinion, I think that most supercar and exotic car purists find the AWD to be a perceived weakness. If a car cannot put the kind of numbers down the GT-R is with just the rear two wheels, then the front two are nothing but a crutch for a badly designed super car. The GT-R should be able to do the things it does without AWD or it doesn't belong in the Supercar club. This is why Evolution Lancers and STi's don't get supercar status. If Nissan really wanted to prove that the GT-R was hot ****, they would've introduced it as a 2wd with the performance it has now AND THEN add AWD later to make it an even hotter car(ala Porsche, Lamborghini). By using AWD from the get-go, the supercar community kind of shuns the GT-R as a decent performer, but with no room for growth and with nothing left in its bag of tricks. It makes one wonder what an AWD Corvette Z06/ZR1 could do....
I'm not trying to get into any arguments, but I'd like to discuss this further, so no hot tempers!
Some examples:
-Lamborghini's current lineup.
-911 Turbo
-Veyron
-959
For a sports car I think I prefer RWD to AWD (probably not for a sporty daily though). But I don't think that AWD means that a car is poorly engineered at all.
