Irunelevens

If they had kept the name, it WOULD be a Cavalier. Even though it's almost completely different than the last Cavalier. And the C6 is still a "Corvette," even though it's different than the C5. Cobalt = new-gen Cavalier.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

If they would have kept the name it would be ALMOST THE ONLY THING that remained the same.It has about as much in common with a 95 Cavalier as it has with a 85 Cavalier. I guess every car that replaces a previous one is the same, so the Cobalt is the same as a Vega or Monza since those were previous small car offerings from Chevy.

I guess the C6 Z06 or upcoming ZR1 are the same car as the 53 Corvette with the "Blue Flame" Inline 6.

Irunelevens

No... but a '97 Corvette is just as much a Corvette as a '96. What if they had changed the name to "Holyshititssuchabettercarwecantcallitacorvetteany more?" Would it not still be a Corvette? Just like with the Ford 500 (which you'll notice is now called the Taurus)... it's still a Cavalier.

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Well by that argument wasnt it a Taurus all along then? The 500 replaced the Taurus, right?

So your Mustang is basically a Pinto since the Mustang II and Pinto had soo much in common. Or maybe it is a Fairmont since the Fox was basically just that, right?

Get a clue. The car shares as much with the Cavalier it REPLACED as it does with a mid size GM. Or I suppose the new Malibu is the same as a 65 Malibu.

A neon is not a K car, a Focus is not a Tempo and a Cobalt is not a Cavalier. It was not just a name change. Just because they are similar in size and market and made by the same company does not make them the same car. Otherwise your old Integra (GS-r, type r, whatever) is just a Civic- nothing more.

Irunelevens

I'm sorry if you don't get it. If GM decided to change the name of the new Camaro, would that make it any-less a Camaro? I'm not saying the Cobalt is the same as the old Cavalier... but it is still the new Cavalier. Don't give me this BS about how it's "similar in size and market and made by the same company." They only changed the name because "Cavalier" has negative denotation. It is the new Cavalier. Just like the RSX is the new Integra. And yes, I always thought of the 500 as the new Taurus. Because that's what it is. And the Integra is based off the Civic platform, but was never called the Civic... it was always the Integra

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

So what you are saying is that you are so hung up on an old name that this car never had that it is the same car to you. And you also still refuse to give credit where it is due like you said before. Just like you want to say that your Integra was never called a Civic, this car was never called a Cavalier (which was not a bad car BTW). The sad part is that your Integra actually did have way more in common with a Civic than the Cobalt ever had with a Cavalier. Just because you, in your narrow minded and obviously not very informed view, consider this car to be a Cavalier does not make it so. A Trailblazer is not a Blazer, a Tahoe is not a K5 and a Cobalt is not a Cavalier.

But your Mustang is a Fairmont and/or Pinto by your reasoning.

Oh yeah, and the F22 is just a F15, after all it was its intended replacement.

Irunelevens

You're absolutely right... I can't give credit where credit is due . Like I said, they only changed the name because of the negative connotation (again, like the Ford 500). And yes, I will be the first to admit that from 79-04, the Mustang was just a fox-chassis car. Hence why I say the S-197's chassis is so much better. I can actually like a car, and still notice it's shortcomings. And actually, the last Cavalier was a pretty horrible car... didn't it have one of the lowest crash-test ratings ever? Like, lethal 15mph side-impact collisions?

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

The S197 is so much better? That is why the Fox cars handled so well, had good power to weight ratio, were extremely affordable and were extremely responsive to mods. They were always winning bang for the buck comparisons. The S197 doesnt handle that much better(most of any imporvement is probably due to tires), weighs too much, has a less desirable powerplant (except the 03-04 Cobra, but they are better on emissions though) and cost to much for a V8 compared to the old LX. But hey, it is still just a Fairmont, because it all did was replace the car that was the same platform as the Fairmont therefor making it the "NEW" Fairmont, even though it did change powertrains, chassis and name. Do you get it yet?

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Anyway, the point is you cant just say "Nice Job", you have to call it just a cavalier, or an econo box, etc. Just because you are not smart enough to tell the difference ("it is still a cavalier") this car is going to be kick *** in its market and will probably put up great numbers. You have used every post to undermine the validity of the time and the quality of the car until your own words were used against you, then you decided to half *** give credit.

Have fun with you dog ***, modded and "soo much better" S197(just a fairmont) that will soon be getting spanked by "just a Cavalier".

Irunelevens

Don't flaunt your ignorance and ruin this thread. The S197 CHASSIS is what I was talking about (like I clearly said), and it's several times stiffer than the Fox/Fox-4 chassis. That's several hundred percent. Think C4 ---> C5. And the suspension is so much better it's ridiculous. People are cutting 1.9 60' times stock fairly regularly. And the feeling of the car is sooo much better. Have you ever driven either? And btw, the S197 weighs about the same as a 4th gen F-body . And again I ask you, would the new Camaro be any-less a Camaro if they decided to change the name tomorrow?

Irunelevens

You're absolutely right... I did nothing this whole thread but bash it for being "just a Cavalier." It had nothing to do with it being a 3,100lb FWD car with 250hp. And as far as the "econo-car" statement, it has to do with the class of car... like no matter how well an F-body performs, it will never be a "sportscar." Nor will the Mustang. They are "pony cars." No matter how fast they are. The CORVETTE is Chevrolet's sportscar. You take **** off on random tangents way too much. And for the record, I wasn't the first one to call it a Cavalier. That would be a fellow F-body owner .

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Yes it would be less of a Camaro, because it was never produced as a Camaro. Although they did intentionally design it to look like and be a Camaro, so that is a different story. Dont let your ignorance cloud your judgment- the Cobalt was not designed from the start to be a Cavalier, it was designed to be better.

And for the record I have owned a Fox and driven S197's many times, I will take a fox any day. Dont compare weight to a F-body, compare the fox LX to the S197.

And good job picking through your posts and trying to act like you werent discrediting the time and refused to accept it was the other times that were bad.

Hydramatic

I don't know about you guys, but when I close the doors of an S197 and I close the doors of a Cobalt, I'm pretty sure the Cobalt sounds like the more expensive, classier vehicle...The New Edge Mustang doors close with a sound almost Identical to my buddies' '86 LX and several third-gens I've driven. Funny how that is....

Irunelevens

Never said the S-197 was a high-class car... just a better chassis than the Fox/Fox-4 chassis. And mzoo, you're absolutely right. The Cobalt was originally designed to be the Cobalt. Which had it's name changed from Cavalier because of the negative connotation of the name. Does that take away anything from the current car? Not at all. But that doesn't make it anything more than a much-improved update of the Cavalier.

Hydramatic

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the Cobalt is being given its due. It is a totally new car in all respects, and to denigrate it as a Cavalier is like me calling the new focus nothing but an updated Escort, which it very much is not, or a Contour/Mystique nothing more than a newer version of the Tempo and Topaz.

Or here is another example. Try telling a Lamborghini enthusiast that the Murcielago is merely a new version of the Diablo VT. Have fun getting yelled at in snobbese.

The point is, you are calling a car something it is not, and we are calling you out for it and trying to correct your erroneous thinking. A Cavalier is a Cavalier. A Cobalt is a Cobalt. This SS/TC is fast, regardless of what label you may slap it with, so just let it go.

Irunelevens

I already said it was an almost completely-new car. What I said was that had Chevrolet not decided to change the name from "Cavalier," that is what it would have been called. LTSpeed is the first one that said it was a Cavalier. I said it was the new Cavalier. Just because something is "the next ___" does not make it the same as the old one.

LTSpeed

I don't care what they call it, it's still boring "looking" like the old Cavalier. Adding rice components just makes it boring rice.

Still, it is a much better car--for someone who doesn't mind the look.

Hydramatic

Chevrolet=American.

Stupid

Not everything with a four-banger is a rice burner...unless you're some ignorant hick. And yes, it ain't a stunner, but not many cars in it's class are. For some reason, companies think that their base offerings have to look like **** in order for buyers to look at the model above it instead.

Hydramatic

But that's just it! By saying the Cobalt is nothing but the new Cavalier, that is pretty much saying the Cobalt IS A NEW CAVALIER.

If you would just say, "It's the Cavalier's new replacement." or "It's replacing the Cobalt" We wouldn't even be having this discussion!

Irunelevens

And you know what? If Ford had called the '05 Mustang the "Pony Express," I would still call it the "new Mustang."