Hydramatic

I think what He's trying to say is that it doesn't deliver a very smooth powerband. You can clearly see a drop off in torque and horsepower between turbine speed ranges. This dyno chart looks peaky as **** compared to like the dyno for a 5.3L which has an absolutely smooth line of power delivery.

In my opinion, cars that do what the Skyline-errrr GT-R does are more or less at the top of their capabilities. I don't believe there is more than two hundred horses left to wring out of that engine.

turbo

iTrader: (10)

I have, toyota always waits till the competition is out before releasing theirs. They will make changes to their current platform to make sure it out performs its competition or be close to it(I dont mean just in the power department either). Thats all I meant.

RedBeauty84ZX

And what makes you think that? People who are analyzing the dyno graph and the VR38 and its turbos seem to think it capable of A LOT more. The way the torque curve plateaus off is a direct indication that this engine is SCREAMING for more boost, its only running 10.2PSI and the turbos are said to be capable of a little over 700HP. BPU mods should put this car around 600WHP. So far this engine looks to be capable of a lot more power....

germeezy1

Those numbers are impressive, a 11.7 1/4 mile time has been advertised. I am more curious of its trap speed at the end. All in all I still would take the C6 Z06. 600 or 700 lbs is nothing to laugh at!

And rumor has it that the ECU has been locked by Nissan, and the fact is the car has turbo's intergrated into the manifolds, so any gains would have to be supported by different headers and down pipes for different turbos.

dailydriver

Hopefully, TOY will also price it substantially higher than this OR the ZR1.
Being a 'Lexus', they probably feel that they can.

turbo

iTrader: (10)

Being that its going to be a sub 5.0L V10 pushing over 500hp, lexus or not...

OKcruising

^ that translates to insta-pricey.

The LFA will be a different market from the prelims, kinda like the Gallardo, badass, but not the top of the uber performance car world, hence it won't be a threat to a ZR1.
Don't get me wrong, the LFA would be a badass car, especially if there happens to be a trickle down with a non v10 and the reintroduction of a actual RWD performance car for their make. Unlike Nissan, I'd sport a serious 'yota performance car.

A few things do need to be cleared up on the GTR before all the fanbois crow:
computer tuning
driveline strength
engine modability.

turbo

iTrader: (10)

The GTR's driveline, specifically the transmission is suppose to be "bullet proof" they say. This is just speculation and rumors tossed around.

I dont think the LFA is trying to compete against the ZR1, granted it might be in the same price range. But I know if im going to spend that much money, its not going to be a vette, ZR1 or not...But I agree the LFA is going to be one nice ride!

germeezy1

I would not spend not one dime on a Lexus sports car, they have not proven that they have any idea how to build a sport car. Now the new Esprit coming out now that may be worth it!

Hydramatic

I just doubt the engine's stock integrity much past +200hp. Sure, if you modify the engine and do some hardware swaps for better, stronger parts, then yeah, but that's not what I'm talking about. I don't think that that engine can make much more than +200hp with just bolt-ons and tuning(no internal modifications).

Also, that first turbo is pretty much going to bottleneck the car performance-wise, something that has always been an issue with factory twin- and twinscroll turbo setups. Just look at the stock R32-34 turbines or the Supra TT. The first thing that happens is the twins get swapped out for bigger ones or just one MASSIVE turbine.

That plateau in the powerband is not going to help the car on a road course or a dragstrip, where the key to victory is a smooth, consistent delivery of power. The only thing that peaky power production is good for is making numbers on dynos, taking up weight and room, and impressing people. Not trying to argue, but an engine ideally should NEVER have a flat spot in the middle of a dyno reading, that means no additional power is being produced during that moment in time. Twin turbos are supposed to be the cure to the poor spool-up time associated with big-hp turbine setups, but almost always are found with that unfortunate die-off in the middle of the powerband. Personally, I think Nissan should have just used a larger turbine and done some souping-up of the engine internally to make up for the poor boost load from idle.

The problem with that is that the vehicle is AWD, and is a dog to launch unless you have instant torque on tap, which the TT's help with. What I'm trying to say here is that the GT-R was built with a Japanese tuning mindset and not an American one. Think of the Japanese way as an hourglass and the American as a hexagon, wide end up.

As it stands,no matter what I say, the new GT-R has a very nice engine it would seem. I'll reserve my judgement until after it competes in some endurance races and at least places....

Just something about it being only a 3.8L V6 kinda bothers me....not much room for growth there, but power is indeed coming in smaller packages these days...

camaro_best

still "Nissan"

germeezy1

Also 1 thing I am surprised about is the lack of direct injection. With the higher CR made possible by DI, they could have developed the engine to make more power down low and out of boost. And used compressors that were mapped for more power at mid to high revs. Also one thing to keep in mind this is a twin turbo system not a sequential twin turbo that would be limited by the smaller turbo. They are two small equal size IHI turbos integrated into the exhaust manifolds.

And one huge thing the 997 TT has is the variable venturi turbos which can be larger and still not have the lag that is usually inevitable with large turbo's.

bad2000z

iTrader: (4)

I'm not really sure why this conversation got so "in depth". I think it's a cool car, but I can't afford one...or an LFA...or a C6Z. The whp numbers are impressive, even if the dyno was a bit optimistic.

El es one

Supposedly that dyno reads 10% higher so I just did the math and I got 427whp now if thats true then is still underrated lol but not that much as they say.

RedBeauty84ZX

I can tell you don't have a lot of experience with boosted cars. The stock turbos are not a bottle neck at all....not until you are pushing 200+ more then stock. The older GTRs and the MKIV Supra are able to go from 320HP to 480HP with just basic bolt ons....literally just intake,exhaust, and a 20 dollar boost controller can net 150+HP on those cars and many other turbo 6 cyls.

No much room for growth/?? You do realize that many "smaller" engines are capable of much more power then many bigger engines right? The 3.8L V6 in the grand nationals has seen over 2000+HP....i've never even heard of an LS1/2/7 getting close to that. The RB26, 2JZ, VG30 have also all seen 1600+HP with no more then 3 liters.

GMmexican

iTrader: (7)

yes but your making up for the lack of cubic inches with big turbos......NA its a whole different story

mzoomora

iTrader: (36)

Show me a stock displacement Buick 3.8 that makes 2000hp. It is probably at least a 4.1 if not more. And as for a 2JZ, lets see a stock internal one making that power with a powerband that doesnt look like the back side of a cliff. Even when you are talking FI displacement does become a limitation, otherwise people wouldnt increase it.

turbo

iTrader: (10)

Just some fyi, SP has produced a upgraded sequential system for the 2jz running 58mm turbos. They just got it running now, they are tuning it. Should it work out like they hope there will be some nice developments in the supra/2jz community. Basically you will have the lag of the 58mm turbo but power of about a 82mm size turbo. And if you seen a 58mm dyno on a supra it is actually quite good.

So maybe it wont have that powerband of the backside of a cliff This is just FYI, nothing more.

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

Making up... With 2000 hp you're not "making up." You're surpassing.

In fact, FI is the only way to ever get those numbers easily on any engine, even V8's...

Or are the quickest LS1's NA? Not really...

bboyferal

iTrader: (9)

1. I agree, I/E/Tune will always be, dollar for dollar, a superior increase on a forced induction car than an NA car... Look at the 03/04 Cobras too.

2. An aluminum block is not designed for peak numbers... Their design focus is on weight of the block and NA power that meets emissions. That's why the C6Z06 is the king of the track for cars under $100k, so far... It's a GOOD thing they choose the weaker aluminum block, not a bad thing, e.g. LS7.

For high peak numbers like that which are only usable in drag racing, the LS1's iron cousin, the LQ4, has seen 2000hp duty without a problem and has seen 6's just like the 2JZ. RB26, etc... I don't see how they're (smaller engines) capable of much more power. They just need more boost to accomplish the same power, or ignite the same volume of air, so to speak. I do not see the superiority or any greater capability, just different engines accomplishing the same feat, mass produced blocks sustaining 2k hp... If there was a Japanese mass produced block that supported 3k hp, then there'd obviously be a superior technology to talk about!

The upper tiers of mass produced engine blocks are all amazing and neck and neck... There is no significant edge as you might seem to imply... Especially in the one area of racing, drag racing, out of the many areas...

To discuss road racing and GT racing, we'd do well to dismiss all these silly ideas of 2k hp milestones, which are nice accomplishments for the drag race teams and for the engine manufacturers, but come on...