TriShield

J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Survey: Stuff and Nonsense



By Michael Karesh
August 7, 2008

J.D. Power’s latest Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) covers the relevant vehicles' third year of operation. [OEMs didn't want to pay for the fifth year study; by then the design is either out of production or almost out of production, so there's nothing they can really do with the results. Also, by then the warranty has expired, so they're not paying the costs of those repairs.]

Once again, much media attention is paid to which brands did better this year (Saab), and which did worse (Buick). Once again, the public gets misleading brand scores rather than model-level results. (Brand averages can be heavily influenced by a single bad design, the introduction of a new design, or the lack thereof.)

And then there’s the little matter of what counts as a “problem” in J.D.'s book. Apparently, it’s anything the survey respondent reports as a problem, rather than a manufacturer-related shortcoming. The VDS’ five most commonly reported problems include brake noise (get them serviced), pulling to one side (get your car aligned), and excessive window fogging. Window fogging? Maybe by the time the third year rolls around it’s time for customers to grab the glass cleaner.

TriShield

It's funny that GM diehards race to defend their favorite automaker even though that automaker does nothing but bullshit and **** on them left and right.

This is the same company that had zero issue alienating you all by discontinuing the Camaro, a car that was very important to the Chevrolet brand to concentrate on trucks. The same company that basically abandoned cars entirely to concentrate on trucks and is now bankrupt because of it. Their PR spins all the news that comes out of the company to make things look rosy and make it look like they actually know what they're doing when the reality is the exact opposite. Every press release from GM is a big smoke and mirror show.

Farago isn't Anti-American, he's anti Americans running huge American industrial giants into the ground causing a substantial amount of investor wealth and American job loss. Cheerleading GM isn't going to save them, it's putting a rubber stamp on all the bad things they do and looking the other way.

The piece CNBC ran was pure bullshit straight from GM. So are the JD Power awards. If you want to really know about the "quality gap" maybe you should subscribe to and read Consumer Reports. They are not bought and paid for by any manufacturer and they test vehicles with what's most practical and best for the consumer, not the manufacturer.

dailydriver

You know, you're right.
We should all bash GM/domestics, even when they DO put out great product at a reasonable cost, and run out right now, straight to our local TOY (or 'duh/dai, Nipsan, etc.,etc.) store to fall all over ourselves to overpay for an import nameplate (just like all of the good little shlemmings do).
Just make sure that it's a Japan/Korean built and sourced one ONLY since we don't want one touched by the lazy/shitty<--(Japanese Minister Of Trade's words) American workers now, do we??
And of course we MUST have 250% of the profits to go directly back to Asia, wouldn't have it ANY other way, right?
Yeah, that's the ticket. That'll show/help the P.O.S. USDM auto industry now, right??

Don't even get me started on your precious, beloved f'ing CR.

Except to say that payola (from Camry/Corolla TRILLION$$$) is an even MUCH more direct and powerful 'biaser' than advertising (as well as much easier to hide).

Damn, you are just sooooo pissed at the general for dropping the 4th gen Ponchos that it made you an import nameplate reactionary shill/GM basher!!

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

Hell I thought they stopped making them because they were not selling enough.
They didn't alienate me or a lot of other F-body guys when they did it.
I still buy GM stuff.
You concentrate on what makes you Cash. That is why Nissan and Toyota got into fullsize trucks...They wanted some of that Moola! Hell who wouldn't?
Do you put all your eggs in one basket? You shouldn't, it was a mistake for GM, but why punish them for it.

DrkPhynx

No, he hates Pontiac. He has cheered and championed the death of the good F-Body, and he has cheer-led for the demise/cancellation of the entire brand. He will tell you that he liked the GTO just to throw you off. Who DOESN'T like the GTO? Seriously? Anyone with a brain has to admit that they are good cars. Even his name is a hint - he's a buick guy. Used to have a GN logo for an avatar.

But that aside, as you said, he's gone overboard the opposite direction and absolutely LIVES to **** on GM and savor every bit of bad news. He drank the kool-aid and really believes that the quality is still poor. Yet, despite being that blind, and posting nothing but doom and gloom, people actually defend this yutz and his trolling. That only thing he HASN'T done is claim the GTR as being king of the world.

DrkPhynx

That's the official line, and that's ALL it was - a line. It had MUCH more to do with issues with Quebec as well as the desire to focus on SUVs.

But otherwise, you are right, it's still the top US company and still produces quality stuff - the G6 is a killer DD. The G8 and CTS are the tops of the RWD performance sedans. The Corvette is a world beater. The Solstice ROCKS, and the kappas have scared Mazda stiff. Their trucks (and cars) get as good, or much better (in the case of hte trucks) fuel economy than the asian counterparts. The list goes on. This guy just gets his rocks off reading and posting doom and gloom. That's all there is to it.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

DrkPhynx, Couldn't have said it better myself.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I missed the first 15 minutes but what I saw was great stuff.





Me too.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

They didn't alienate anybody, those of us that still wanted our LS1 F-bodies still bought them and if we'd wanted one after 2002 we bought a used one, no biggie. And now it's coming back anyway.

And concentrate entirely on trucks? You DO know that the world class and stellar performing Corvette C6 & Z06 came out even after the demise of the F-body right?
GTO (and more recently the G8), the Solstice/Sky were released, an awesome new Malibu and Saturn Aura, Cobalt SS, Saturn Redline and among those trucks you speak of was the very cool Trailblazer SS as well.






Totally and absolutely FALSE. GM is NOT bankrupt and simply by stating something such as that means that your credibility and knowledge on this topic are highly questionable and suspect.






Consumer Reports? Yeah, I'm going to take the word of some tree hugging, anti performance car, liberal writer who tests/rates refrigerators and electric razors all day (a true expert right? LOL) as the final word on the cars and trucks that I buy.

And it's ironic, when the import nameplate vehicle nutswingers need some info or confirmation about the 'quality' of their favorite vehicles they always turn to and recite JD Power.
But when JD Power suddenly recognizes the quality in a domestic nameplate vehicle the import namedroppers simply retort with "well, umm, JD Power is all BS anyway".
Got to love stereotypically convenient and self serving logic like that.

wannabess00

iTrader: (1)

To my knowledge the discontinuing of Camaro and Firebird was due to a slow down in sales but was more of an open door to move build locations. People have to remember that the target audience of Mustang is for the V6 fun car crowd and the f-bodies were intended for the performance crowd. Due to over capacity with in the plant they wanted a new location. But in order for this to occure GM wouldnt be allowed to produce the two cars for a 5 year period.

While I am very disappointed with the lack of independence being given to the right people (i.e. Scott Settlemire) and others that are the John Delorians of our time I still have hope that GM can start to recognize the talent of American engineering instead of this constant pushing of the Australians on us. Camaro as well as the American Muscle car belongs to us no matter where its produced and it should be given to the enthusiasts. The 04-06 GTO was an insult to the biggest name in muscle car history and reflected the modern arrogance and disrespect GMs top execs had for blue collar performance cars and its heritage.

However, as much as Im not a fan of sport compacts the Colbalt SS is an outstanding example of GMs revival as well as the TrailBlazer SS, Impala SS and even the Monte Carlo SS (before its 5 year break from GM showrooms was decided). Im excited to see just what the Camaro SS will do for the image of Chevy and have no doubt it will embarrass the Mustang within 2 years of sales and once Berger,GMMG,Harrell, and the ZL1 come out.

TriShield

What planet do you live on where any of those products sell well or make a profit? GM can't even give Kappas away with $4 per gallon gasoline. GM has consistently failed to make a Accord, Camry and Sonata beating car that people want to buy. GM has failed to make a compact and subcompat people want to buy.

I just bought two new GM cars in the last two years. If I hated the company that much I certainly wouldn't be spending my hard earned money buying their stuff. If I hated American cars I wouldn't be using my vacation to go to the Dream Cruise next week in Detroit to celebrate American cars for half a week just as I have been the past nine years.

GM is in bad shape, will fail and it's not hard to see why. It's one of the poorest run companies on the planet that makes mind-bogglingly bad productio decisions, creates substandard products that aren't desirable or competitive, destroyed all the brand image and history we loved, and then bullshits consumers and fans left and right in the airtime they buy, page space they advertise on and paying for crappy shows like what CNBC ran.

TriShield

GM set themselves up as a truck maker, a company that profits on nothing but trucks, that's why GM is losing billions of dollars. That's why GM has fallen in marketshare substantially. That's why GM is at the precipice of bankruptcy. That is reality.

If you want to brag about quality and reliability from an unbiased source Consumer Reports is the only one out there. They are not anti-anything, all vehicles are all rated the same with the consumer in mind first and foremost. They do no accept advertising money from any manufacturer and cannot be bought by GM or Toyota. JD Powers cannot lay the same claims and their list doesn't hold anywhere near as much weight as a result. Most people ignore it, and for good reason.

TriShield

I'm not an anything guy. I wasn't even on this website when those cars were discontinued and I was saddened it happened, where do you come up with this stuff? You sound like a child.

An F-body isn't a car I would personally own but it's one that was vitally important to both the Chevrolet and Pontiac brands and discontinuing it in the first place was not only a huge mistake, but one that dealt a big blow to Chevrolet and moreso Pontiac.

I recognize that for GM to be a profitable business it has to be sized to reflect it's market reality and make money. GM currently is not and has not been for many many years. Right now a huge part of it's problem is that it is sized like it dominates the market when it's really sitting at 20% of the market and falling. Falling fast.

GM is stretched too thin over too many brands that don't sell well, they also have too many models and too many dealers. All of this costs resources GM doesn't have. GM cannot adequately support every brand and the market itself hasn't supported GM's brands for a long time. This ship won't float and cannot be sustained.

Simply put, there is nothing any of the brands do that Chevrolet and Cadillac don't already do or couldn't be doing better. A GM that is a quarter of the size of the current company and wasn't nursing so many brands is one that would have vastly less product overlap, rebadging and cannabalization and one that could react much more quickly to changes in the market.

How can Pontiac fans be enamored with the situation the brand is currently in? GM's final nail in the coffin for this brand was not resurrecting the Firebird. A car that really was distinctly Pontiac and carries Pontiac's maverick/rebel image from it's heyday. GM also floated the idea of making the brand all RWD, that's not going to happen. GM can't afford it and probably wasn't serious about it in the first place. Pontiac is a shell of what it is, it sells an unpopular little roadster, a Toyota, a mainstream sedan that isn't sporty or competitive, and nice Australian muscle car that isn't selling in high numbers.

If GM can't afford to do Pontiac justice, and if it all it is now is another mainstream brand like Chevrolet, then what's the point of it? There isn't much left to mourn.

Z ROADSTER

[QUOTE=Straight from the mouth of MAXIMUM BOB=[/QUOTE]= And I quote , " THIS GLOBAL WARMING BULL-**** IS JUST THAT ! A CROCK OF **** " !!!
What a guy ! Another cracker-jack white collar numb-nuts from GM who thinks he knows it all .

Jakes Dad

TriShield - please take a breath. You're so bitter for a person 29 years old. You have all the answers - run for something save us!!

You say GM never should have quit making the Camaro. Will we be permitted to quit or lower production of trucks and SUV's because they aren't selling? What can I do, a few of my new trucks are 369 days old? Look at the 35 years the Camaro sold and let me know why the number of units sold went down each year. Even after they put a 350 in it?

You say J. D. Powers Associates, GM, and this presentation all suck. Your auto reference of choice is Consumer Reports. But you also said you bought two GM cars recently, so that makes you an authority on GM. For the record, I started in car business 11 years before you were born. I am not an authority yet. Slow learner I guess. Perhaps I need to read more of your views. It would be a cold day in Ohio when I owned a Prius, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Accord, Lexus 400L, Miata, Rav4 Santa Fe, or Sienna. But I do own several Silverado based vehicles. Those vehicles are Consumer Reports best buys for 2008. Yet, you bought two GM Cars. Hopefully you have a Cadillac or Buick in your fleet? That damn J.D. Powers says they are two of top ten on their long-term quality list. The first cars I sold were OLDSMOBILE and CHEVROLET.

Jakes Dad

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Two words:

Malibu
Aura

If people still don't want to buy them then THOSE PEOPLE are the ones that are simply biased and anti GM because these cars have been praised and applauded by the media and general public alike.

Z ROADSTER

Depending on which side of the street your standing on , sometimes the truth can hurt ! And some will get their feelings hurt more than others . But if the shoe fits , ya gotta wear it !

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

I don't get it?

Z ROADSTER

Major mis-management by white-collar workers & General Motors CEO and staff . Backed by die-hard enthusiast wearing a big set of blinders unwilling to admit that their cherished / favorite manufacture has been f**kin up for the last six years or more , BIG TIME ! They made their bed , now let em lie in it and suffer the consequences .
Good business management 101 plainly states . " NEVER , I REPEAT , NEVER PUT ALL OF YOUR EGGS IN ONE BASKET " ! Which is exactly what Roger did . Just like the first Roger , Smith that is . Roger had this brain storm , lets kill off the Camaro & all rear wheel drive passenger cars . Then we'll all be rollin in cash with huge profit margins . Good call Roger !

My1st Truck

iTrader: (8)

I thought you were talking about the reliability and build quality thing.