Want a maggie alternative?........
12-30-2009, 11:04 PM
#21
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Here is a page to read. It should give you a better overall understanding. It is about turbochargers but the principals are the same. Its a good read. http://www.turbomustangs.com/turbotech/main.htm
12-31-2009, 09:24 AM
#22
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It's about Density. Larger volume with same pressure should equate to cooler.
Cool is Good. Cooler = more molecules per cubic centimeter.
Cool is Good. Cooler = more molecules per cubic centimeter.
Last edited by Stepside; 12-31-2009 at 11:45 AM. Reason: more info
12-31-2009, 02:50 PM
#23
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This is like talking to Naf.
All I'm saying is that there's no way you're going to get way over 5xx rwhp with a boost of 6.4 psi UNLESS the IATs are WA-A-A-Y down. I don't care what FI device you're using. You're still taking air at atmospheric pressure and decreasing it's volume to fit into the combustion chamber of an LS6 motor. If you end up with the absolute pressure inside that cylinder being 14.7 psi plus 6.4 psi, then unless the temperature is dramatically lower than some other FI device doing it, then it's not going to get dramatically more combustible air in there hence not dramatically more power.
Tell me the IATs are way lower compared to a maggie PLEASE, and I'll believe you, but don't say that because the FI device is bigger there's more air in there when the pressure is no different.
Is it getting close to happy hour yet?
All I'm saying is that there's no way you're going to get way over 5xx rwhp with a boost of 6.4 psi UNLESS the IATs are WA-A-A-Y down. I don't care what FI device you're using. You're still taking air at atmospheric pressure and decreasing it's volume to fit into the combustion chamber of an LS6 motor. If you end up with the absolute pressure inside that cylinder being 14.7 psi plus 6.4 psi, then unless the temperature is dramatically lower than some other FI device doing it, then it's not going to get dramatically more combustible air in there hence not dramatically more power.
Tell me the IATs are way lower compared to a maggie PLEASE, and I'll believe you, but don't say that because the FI device is bigger there's more air in there when the pressure is no different.
Is it getting close to happy hour yet?
12-31-2009, 04:47 PM
#24
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This is like talking to Naf.
All I'm saying is that there's no way you're going to get way over 5xx rwhp with a boost of 6.4 psi UNLESS the IATs are WA-A-A-Y down. I don't care what FI device you're using. You're still taking air at atmospheric pressure and decreasing it's volume to fit into the combustion chamber of an LS6 motor. If you end up with the absolute pressure inside that cylinder being 14.7 psi plus 6.4 psi, then unless the temperature is dramatically lower than some other FI device doing it, then it's not going to get dramatically more combustible air in there hence not dramatically more power.
Tell me the IATs are way lower compared to a maggie PLEASE, and I'll believe you, but don't say that because the FI device is bigger there's more air in there when the pressure is no different.
Is it getting close to happy hour yet?
All I'm saying is that there's no way you're going to get way over 5xx rwhp with a boost of 6.4 psi UNLESS the IATs are WA-A-A-Y down. I don't care what FI device you're using. You're still taking air at atmospheric pressure and decreasing it's volume to fit into the combustion chamber of an LS6 motor. If you end up with the absolute pressure inside that cylinder being 14.7 psi plus 6.4 psi, then unless the temperature is dramatically lower than some other FI device doing it, then it's not going to get dramatically more combustible air in there hence not dramatically more power.
Tell me the IATs are way lower compared to a maggie PLEASE, and I'll believe you, but don't say that because the FI device is bigger there's more air in there when the pressure is no different.
Is it getting close to happy hour yet?
12-31-2009, 05:12 PM
#25
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Randy,
We can agree that a given volume of charge that is cooler, is also denser. So, when that intake valve opens on the engine with the 3.3L, there is a slightly denser mixture.Therefore, it will produce more combustible force. But, ahhhh, let's look at the RPM in which this occurs. Let's look at the streetable RPM range and what both superchargers produce at a given RPM. I have to agree with you on what I believe are figures that seem to be inflated.
'Mr.Magna' with his little supercharger, will produce more torque under the curve at a lower RPM than 'Mr.Wipple's Big One'.
In other words . . . 'Mr. Magna' can get it up quicker and be pumpin' harder & stronger, while 'Mr.Whipple' will still be flaccid until his screw type mechanism is spinning fast enough to pass 'Mr.Magna'.
Remember: Streetable RPMs. Dyno results are bragging rights, but it's the street, where we meet.
And that's the way it is.
We can agree that a given volume of charge that is cooler, is also denser. So, when that intake valve opens on the engine with the 3.3L, there is a slightly denser mixture.Therefore, it will produce more combustible force. But, ahhhh, let's look at the RPM in which this occurs. Let's look at the streetable RPM range and what both superchargers produce at a given RPM. I have to agree with you on what I believe are figures that seem to be inflated.
'Mr.Magna' with his little supercharger, will produce more torque under the curve at a lower RPM than 'Mr.Wipple's Big One'.
In other words . . . 'Mr. Magna' can get it up quicker and be pumpin' harder & stronger, while 'Mr.Whipple' will still be flaccid until his screw type mechanism is spinning fast enough to pass 'Mr.Magna'.
Remember: Streetable RPMs. Dyno results are bragging rights, but it's the street, where we meet.
And that's the way it is.
12-31-2009, 05:16 PM
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i think you are wrong on that. According to the dyno the whipple made over 500ft/lbs at 3000 rpm. That is a very streetable rpm. the whipple puts out 3.3l of air per revolution, you wont experience the lag like a larger turbo vs smaller one. They both make power from the instant you stab the throttle.
12-31-2009, 05:29 PM
#27
The whipplecharger compresses the air, the eaton style supercharger does not. At a steady state cruise, the whipple will use more power to spin, whereas the eaton uses less. The whipple should make more power everywhere, it pushes more air at the same rpm as an eaton of the same displacement. Anyone remember when Top Fuel started using whipples instead of eaton based blowers? They were quickly outlawed because they radically drove up engine outputs, and the sanctioning bodies feared that safety would become an issue. The Eaton supercharger is a great blower, it's been updated over the years. The whipple is superior when performance is concerned, but it is more expensive. I used to have an MP62 supercharger on a Miata. The rotors were 3 lobes with a curl to them similar to a whipple. Coincidence, I think not.
You want to maximize the output and longevity of your magnacharger? Have it ported and the rotors and case coated. I've had 2 eaton based blowers, an M45 and MP62, ported and coated by Embree Machine, and both performed beyond my expectations.
You want to maximize the output and longevity of your magnacharger? Have it ported and the rotors and case coated. I've had 2 eaton based blowers, an M45 and MP62, ported and coated by Embree Machine, and both performed beyond my expectations.
12-31-2009, 06:21 PM
#28
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i think you are wrong on that. According to the dyno the whipple made over 500ft/lbs at 3000 rpm. That is a very streetable rpm. the whipple puts out 3.3l of air per revolution, you wont experience the lag like a larger turbo vs smaller one. They both make power from the instant you stab the throttle.
Happy New Year
01-01-2010, 08:35 PM
#31
Here's the most current but they're concentrating mostly on the MAF/intake tube and the front portion of the intake manifold. It actually looks more like the generic Gen4 now.
I have some earlier ones but they're before the changes.
You can see why I'm not able to use the Davis radiator that Darkman was showing.
I have some earlier ones but they're before the changes.
You can see why I'm not able to use the Davis radiator that Darkman was showing.
01-01-2010, 10:09 PM
#33
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the high numbers are very easy to explain in my mind at least.
it's the crazy correction factor they use in Colorado.
take a look at pretty much all shop numbers you see from Colorado and you will see they are crazy high compared to everywhere else.
bring the car down and dyno at sea level and I bet you see numbers closer to what you expect.
been seeing it for 10+ years on the LS1 boards
it's the crazy correction factor they use in Colorado.
take a look at pretty much all shop numbers you see from Colorado and you will see they are crazy high compared to everywhere else.
bring the car down and dyno at sea level and I bet you see numbers closer to what you expect.
been seeing it for 10+ years on the LS1 boards
01-02-2010, 02:17 AM
#35
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did I ever claim correctness ?
just giving a logical explaination of the high numbers.
take it or leave it.
oh wait I see why your comment is as it is......
dyno your car closer to sea level one day and prove the theory wrong
just giving a logical explaination of the high numbers.
take it or leave it.
oh wait I see why your comment is as it is......
dyno your car closer to sea level one day and prove the theory wrong
01-02-2010, 03:51 AM
#36
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I call it how I see it. Your first comment made you sound like a kid burned because someone made more hp than you a few times.
Anywho, I won't cloud up this thread anymore than I already have so let's hear your worthless two cents also so we can move on.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program
Anywho, I won't cloud up this thread anymore than I already have so let's hear your worthless two cents also so we can move on.
Now back to your regularly scheduled program
01-02-2010, 07:45 AM
#37
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Whipple is about to release the 2.9 Intercooled S/C for the LS engines. i work at a shop in Phoenix and we have a ton of F-Bodys, CTS-V, C5 & C6 and 2010 camaros just waiting till after the new year when whipple will release them. It possibly looks like the S/C will clear the hood on the F-body. The 2010 camaro made 545/519 on 7 psi. Maggie take that
I cant wait for the f-body tuner kit to come out. if it performes nearly as good as it does for the LS3's imagin what it can do on a stroker
