CTS-V vs. M3 on the Track
05-11-2010, 10:31 AM
#41
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2009 Porsce Cayman S 3100 lbs. 60-0 mph 111 feet
2010 CTS V 4200 lbs. 60-0 mph 109 feet.
Lower weight does not always equal superior braking. BTW the V2 which is almost 1/2 ton more in weight will destroy a Cayman S on a road course. Road and Track has tested both. It takes more than low weight to win. But......low weight is the first thing you should try to achieve because it pays big dividends. Imagine the V2 if it weighed 3500 lbs. So I agree with you about weight. It's just not everything.
2010 CTS V 4200 lbs. 60-0 mph 109 feet.
Lower weight does not always equal superior braking. BTW the V2 which is almost 1/2 ton more in weight will destroy a Cayman S on a road course. Road and Track has tested both. It takes more than low weight to win. But......low weight is the first thing you should try to achieve because it pays big dividends. Imagine the V2 if it weighed 3500 lbs. So I agree with you about weight. It's just not everything.
2004 CTS-V (3850 lbs.) 60-0 mph = 116 ft.
e46 M3 (3350 lbs.) 60-0 mph = 115 ft.
Obviously the superior 4-piston Brembo calipers with 14.0"/14.4" rotors make up for the 500 lb weight difference (and the M3's tiny 1-piston calipers and rotors) to some extent. It is time to give credit where credit is due. The V is the real deal for its class of automobiles. I too want a super-light, dedicated sports/track car (i.e. Corvette Z06), but most of us have to "make do" with what we have. And I, for one, am very proud of what I have been able to accomplish with the aftermarket modifications on my 2004 V. I would bet good money that it will surprise a lot of cars on the road course that on paper should be able to run cirlces around it.
On another note, my friend just upgraded his front brakes to Stoptechs on his M3 after completely burning up a caliper at a track day last month, so I have no qualms saying that he will for sure be able to out-brake me now with his aftermarket setup.
05-11-2010, 12:14 PM
#42
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There's also tire compound and width as well. V1s don't exactly run the widest tires in the front.
But when you compare Cayman vs 2010 V, put same width tires on the Cayman and see who stops faster then.
Basically there's too many variables.
But when you compare Cayman vs 2010 V, put same width tires on the Cayman and see who stops faster then.
Basically there's too many variables.
05-11-2010, 03:40 PM
#43
Exactly, and the weight variable of the V2 (1100lbs) negates the wider tire size. Everyone acknowledges that weight can be a disadvantage. Weight problems can be problematic for handling, braking, and accelerating. If the car designers can help overcome some of those inherent problems with better brake systems, state of the art chassis design (GTR AWD for one and GM Sigma with SLA and multi-link), plentiful torque and the right wheel and tire combo, they can help level the playing field. In the end though, if your gonna build a real racecar, it better be a lightweight one.
05-12-2010, 09:13 AM
#45
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^^ I would like to know the same.
Matter of fact I'm interested in LS cars that are Magnacharger or Procharged and how do they do at the track reliability wise.
Matter of fact I'm interested in LS cars that are Magnacharger or Procharged and how do they do at the track reliability wise.
05-13-2010, 02:46 PM
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They look good and the price is right but they are heavy and take lots of weight to balance. When I balance a set of new Rota's and they take a butt load of weight that means poor build quality. A good set of wheels like SSR's or CCW's take around .25 to .5 oz's total which is nothing.
08-06-2010, 12:29 PM
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I track my V1 about 5-7 times a year
I live in the Dallas area and goto Eagles Canyon Raceway about 1hr north of Allen, TX
what's great about the V for the dual use, space and power and brakes
there's alot small upgrades can you do and REALLY make a difference:
...SS brake lines, brake fluid, sway bars, brake pads, TIRES!!!!
the problems with the V as a track car:
6 lug rims -- few choices
seatbelt into the seat -- so can't switch our seats for ther weekend :-(
I planning to race again as soon as temps drop
Sept 11th is a open track day @ ECR:
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/sch...mon=09&yr=2010
jerrycecco@tx.rr.com
I live in the Dallas area and goto Eagles Canyon Raceway about 1hr north of Allen, TX
what's great about the V for the dual use, space and power and brakes
there's alot small upgrades can you do and REALLY make a difference:
...SS brake lines, brake fluid, sway bars, brake pads, TIRES!!!!
the problems with the V as a track car:
6 lug rims -- few choices
seatbelt into the seat -- so can't switch our seats for ther weekend :-(
I planning to race again as soon as temps drop
Sept 11th is a open track day @ ECR:
http://www.eaglescanyon.com/2008/sch...mon=09&yr=2010
jerrycecco@tx.rr.com
08-06-2010, 08:46 PM
#48
This is one of my favorite threads. I especially like the weight discussions. My V is a big girl, kinda like one of the Williams sisters (Serena I think).
Without those Brembos and the Yoko AD08s and the hi tech pad materials that were not available until the last few years, 3850 lbs. would play out a lot different. Pat says that the notable heavyweights perform well because of the power advances, I agree, but I think it's a combination of both.
The new Camaro and the Shelby Mustang have now joined the ranks of the clinically obese. So instead of hoping for mid 1990s curb weights to return for sedans and coupes, let's look out into the future. and figure that this is what we will be working with unless we all want to drive Subarus and E46s (nice cars BTW).
Good luck on track day Jerry.
Without those Brembos and the Yoko AD08s and the hi tech pad materials that were not available until the last few years, 3850 lbs. would play out a lot different. Pat says that the notable heavyweights perform well because of the power advances, I agree, but I think it's a combination of both.
The new Camaro and the Shelby Mustang have now joined the ranks of the clinically obese. So instead of hoping for mid 1990s curb weights to return for sedans and coupes, let's look out into the future. and figure that this is what we will be working with unless we all want to drive Subarus and E46s (nice cars BTW).
Good luck on track day Jerry.
