kbahus

I have an opportunity to purchase a new car primarily for fun and track time (HPDE at Highplains Raceway) but it still has to be somewhat useable for daily duties. I owned a 4th gen Camaro for 8 years before going over to the Subaru world and now I am escaping the Subaru world for something better. The e46 M3 is my prime choice but the CTS-V is an option as the price is about the same for a used one. Plus I have this deep passion for GM muscle cars. I know the M3 will perform at the track but are the CTS-V's capable of track duty on the weekend? What suspension options are available for these cars? Does anyone here actually race one of these things on a road course? Thanks for any input!

Gus_Mahn

iTrader: (1)

FWIW The guy I bought my '05 V from bought a '04 M3 to replace the V. I think the V's can get around the track well, maybe as fast (maybe faster) then a M3, but the V lacks the feedback and connected feeling that some "drivers" cars have. Some cars you can feel rolling over a pebble. The V is pretty numb for a sports car, but lots of guys open track them. I'm going to do it but haven't yet.

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

The V1 is still a very formidable weekend warrior. Prices have come down and the car is really a lot less expensive to operate than a M3. Replacement parts such as rotors and brakes are very robust. Clutches can be had for less than $800. LS engines have tons of performance parts at prices the Germans could never match. The sigma platform on the V1 is world class sports sedan status. As far as the weight is concerned, just look around at the new generation sport sedans and you'll find the V1 is a lightweight. $ for $ the V1 is a great value for weekend track days.

maxspeed05V

iTrader: (4)

budie of mine from this forum that just went to limerack raceway a few weeks back, he said the V did very well on the track. He pulled a 1.15 on the g meter.

The thread isnt to far back, check it out. talk to him

tweeter81

I have a buddy that has an '04 M3 and he claims to be really fast. I think those cars are something special (as in -- more than the some of their parts). They just handle phenominally. That being said, the V1 is the same story. I have surprised a ton of guys on the roadcourse with my "heavy black beast". Even in stock form, CTS-Vs are formidable in their class (luxury sedans with lots of power), but add some handling and brake mods and you all of the sudden have a car capable of running with cars that are above and beyond the V1's class. Also, the aforementioned mods can be had pretty cheap. You can make this car handle better than any sedan should be able to for about $2000-$2500.

For informational purposes: I have run within less than 1 second difference of the lap times of a moderately/highly modified Subaru WRX (all STI parts, some weight reduction, 302 rwHP, and less than 3100 lbs, is what the owner told me, if I remember correctly). That was at Pueblo Motorsports Park, which if you have been there, is a fairly technical track that favors smaller, lighter cars. During one of my fast laps that day, I pulled a 1.25 and a 1.26 on the G-Meter. My previous outing at PMP was 4 seconds slower per lap and only 1.15/1.21 on the G-Meter, although that was before I was running the R-Compound Toyo R888s.

Also, see video below for me on the track @ Pueblo. I was planning to attend HPR this weekend, but some family obligations popped up instead, so now I am thinking of hitting HPR at the end of May for an open lapping day with FAASST Racing.

tweeter81

I don't know if a V will ever out-track an M3 (although I don't have any firsthand experience with competing against one), but in some cases, I think it could be close enough to depend on the driver.

rjoffe

There are a good number of guys who track their v's on a regular basis. As you are probably aware, the M3 vs V on the track question usually ends up being a drivers issue rather then a vehicular one.

The brakes on the V are excellent. Most of my early HPDE instructors were amazed on how much grip they had, and how repeatable they were over the day.

From my point of view it's the perfect take the kids to school during the week, the wife out to dinner on Friday night, and track warrior on weekend vehicle.

The only thing I do for a track weekend is swap my Goodyears for a set of R comps.

Ron

kbahus

tweeter, thank you for the valuable information. What kind of lap times were you turning down at Pueblo? I work at SCR Performance in Loveland and we spend a lot of time at autox events and HPR. I will be one of the on site mechanics for the shop during Time Trials events and such so if you see our trailer look for me, my name is Kevin.

Very interesting information for sure. I was expecting to get answers more along the lines of not a chance in hell between the two cars. More research is definitely required on my end. I was in a stock Evo9 with R comps a few weeks ago at HPR and a stock Charger SRT four door pulled on us in the straights, we could catch up in the corners but had a very hard time getting around him. That car was a massive boat too. That really opened my eyes back to american muscle cars.

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

I ran with this M3 all day last summer at Blackhawk a tight short track. The car was fast. This M3 was also modified. He could never pass me on the straight and never gained on me through the corners. Ofcourse this was not a race and no one was at 10/10s, but the cars appeared to be evenly matched. Probably more of a drivers race.

tweeter81

Glad to be of service to you! When I did a full day HPDE at Pueblo in 2007, I was running 1:55.xx, which I was told was pretty good for a street car.

But last summer with the r-comps, my best time was a 1:51.xx, and the guy in the modded WRX was running 1:50.xx. I was pretty happy about those times, although I don't really know how good they are other than compared to the Subies on the track that day. I think it would be pretty awesome to break into the 1:40's.

Also, it was like 90-95° F that day as well, brakes go really hot, but no fading or soft pedal feel at all. The brakes are the best part about these cars, just super solid and huge stopping power.

What were your times in the Evo?

tweeter81

Awesome, and very cool picture!!! Oh, almost forgot. In my quest to have a track monster V, I am installing some heavy Eibach springs on my car this week. I am upping the spring rate from my existing 600/650 to 750/800. I am going to attempt to live with that high of a spring rate on the street so I don't have to mess with swapping them out when I hit up the track. I hope that the ride is not unbearable.

kbahus

I think now the problem I am going to have is finding one to take for a drive before I buy. All of the ones I am finding are out of state. I get M3's through the shop fairly often so I have some wheel time in those. hmmmmmmm Tweeter, will you be at the track labor day weekend? Also, does the car feel heavy in the driver's seat?

whisler151

I can say from personal experience, in a straight line it's not even close. 1st gear, 2nd gear 3rd gear...you name the speed the V smokes the e46.

I've never tried to race one in slow curves.

tweeter81

I have always thought that the car felt tossable and very responsive, even in stock form, but now with my mods it feels pretty damn solid. Bottom line, It goes where I want it to go, and believe it or not, understeer is almost non-existant.

As for the weight feel, I don't think the car feels heavy at all. Although riding in my friends modified e46 M3, it felt a bit crisper and lighter than my V (but in reality it is only about 350-400 lbs lighter, keeping in mind 67 HP and gobs of torque less as well), but not to a huge extent.

One thing that seems to be a crutch for the car in terms of how it feels, is the super heavy (50 lb) dual-mass stock flywheel. I am having a mechanic friend install a Monster Clutch Kit with an 18 lb flywheel this week and should notice a significant change in how heavy the car feels, even though I don't really think it felt heavy to begin with.

I am tentatively planning on heading out to HPR on May 28th, but my plans may change if my girlfriend can't get that day off of work. Whenever I can actually make it down to Colorado for a track day (only once or twice per season) I usually post up on this forum or the Cadillacforum.com to see if any other V owners can make it.

Also, I am still curious about your Pueblo times. Do you know what good street car times are out there? I always like to find out where I stack up against the competition.

kbahus

I talked to my co-worker that is a nationally ranked autox driver and he has was running 1.48's in an E36 M3. I am not sure what trim the car was in at the time, I would imagine AST coilovers and good tires. The engine has always been near stock so pretty low on power. He said the times weren't bad but weren't good so it sound like you were right around the average. I will be down there that weekend so maybe we can hook up.

The flywheel is really 50lbs? That is absolutely insane! I am shopping around for some choice parts that I would "like" to have and am discovering a few issues with parts. Wheels seem to be the biggest problem as I can't find anything except spendy CCW's and crappy Rota's. KW Variant 3's are available but we have switched all of our cars from KW over to AST's as we can tune and rebuild them in house and they don't offer a coilover yet. I might be able to change that though and need to make a phone call tomorrow. Brakes are good to go with Hawk pads of my liking which is nice. I am going to have to look into some seat brackets for Sparco's too.

Persian-V

Once my V gets back in a few weeks here you're welcome to test drive mine if you want? I know a couple others in CO that have supercharged V's currently mine is bone stock for now but hey if you want to give it a spin let me know, I autocross every now and then when I have the time. As for track I plan to be out there over the summer.

tweeter81

The fw weight is ridiculous. It was designed that way to absorb driveline pulses and be easy to start the car for "older" Cadillac drivers. It needs to go on anyones V. It has a ton of slop in it as well and really makes the transmission clunk and feel somewhat sloppy.

Go with the Team Dynamics wheels (I believe they come in matte black or silver with a multi-spoke design). You can get four wheels shipped for something like $1100 on Ebay or something. They are 18"x9" wide (0.5" wider than stock) and super light from what I have heard. That is the route I would eventually like to go for track only wheels (keep in mind that these wheels don't come with a center cap, nor is there one to fit). My 19" CCWs are also badass light wheels, but 19" r-comp tires are just way too expensive.

The next track-related things I need to save up for is a dedicated car trailer so I don't have to drive my track-prepped car 400 miles to the track and those wheels I mentioned above. A man's gotta dream...

I'll let you know when I know for sure if I am going to HPR on the 28th or not.

Big Bu Bu

iTrader: (4)

I reduced the weight of my clutch assembly by 41lbs by going to a Fidanza twin. The results are remarkable. Team Dynamics are available as a well priced track wheel from Lindsay Cadillac. Eibach or H&R springs are dirt cheap and Hotchkiss bars are very popular.

adanieljohnson1

iTrader: (1)

This one always gets me... hehehe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSWm1RH0NCI

Jon04CTSV

I track mine quite a bit. Very very capable car. It does provide feedback quite well and very predictable. I run R888s at the track. Can keep up with Vettes through the corners at Mosport, but once we hit the back straight away they leave me for dead. We'll see what happens when my cam goes in though