FinalTA

iTrader: (1)

Maybe it's just me, but could you explain to me what finesse the M3 has over the CTS-V? Would that be the strung out motor that has self imploding properties?

Shinkaze

I think it would be more like 400 pounds and a more performance oriented design. The CTS-V competes with the M3 the same way the M3 competes with the Z06. Similar price different mission focus and their respective trade-offs.

steve_c

True BMW did have some failures with their new inline 6, some say it was related to the sulfur content in US gasoline, some say it was manufacturing flaws.

In any case, show me a stock LS1, LS2, LS6 motor that can pump out 104hp/liter and then come back and talk smack...

I also don't see any SMG option on the CTS-V... where is it? still using an old school T-56...

Finesse is in the M3's technology and innovation, if you need me to draw you a picture let me know...

Steve

FinalTA

iTrader: (1)

That's hilarious...sulfur in US gas

How's this for talking smack...that's a ricer excuse after a good *** whoopin'

Excal

the M3's chassis is Eons above the cts-v, and that "strung out engine" puts out 355hp out of a stright n/a 6 cyl in the CSL (i think that's the name) Trim.

This version is even lighter than the reg. m3.

Second the M5s autobahn tested chassis is vastly superior as well.

The regular M3 is the King in it's class at the racetrack as well, that's why it has been more sucessful at it than probably any production car.

i'd say the m5 has about 100 working systems more than any cadillac period.

comparing these 2 cars is like comparing a c5 and a and a blown big block camaro.

Horsepower a sports car does not make.

If anyone needs more help in this department..

the z06 is a better sportscar then the viper. c5-r program is also MUCH more sucessfull than the Team Oreca GTSs in the same class.

as far as "FAILURES" i hate to break it to some people but Lamborghini and Ferrari are not reliable cars. well at least they didn't use to be.

and if we're gonna Use failures as a Factor then the s2000 is the best sports car in america. (a v-tec system hasn't failed yet)

We generally consider the original GT 40 as a great sports car, but a 60s Lotus elan
would leave it for dead anywhere except in top speed.

This is from a owner of both, and the Elan didn't break 220hp.

you can't drop a high hp engine in a Boat that clocks better than an old model once in a irrelevant track and pretend its a m5 killer.

good for a straight line and highways, but don't mistake that for sportyness.

The RS6 and SL55 AMG are the m5s competition, and that's ntil it actually comes out in the new model; though it does not need to.

cvp33

Excal,

I don't dispute anything you listed above. While HP alone does not make a sports sedan it's a very important part of the admission process. I think the other would be track times. Have you read where the CTS-V beat the M5 while being short shifted around the track? Now that speaks volumes to the car's credibility. What the 'V' lacks in heritage it more than makes up for in its price and performance. I don't expect that anyone would pay $80,000 for the V but am surprised when someone pays $30,000 more to go slower.

Crozier

Seems your M cars aren't so invincible.

"Those figures should make the V-series quicker than a BMW M3 or M5. More important, John Heinricy, the director of GM's high-performance-vehicle operations and a successful racer for more than 20 years, says he's lapped the Nordschleife in 8 minutes and 19 seconds in the V-series—a better time than either M-car can turn."

From:

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=2

Ling_650vette

iTrader: (1)

I just dont care much for most of those other vehicles. Granted, their interiors are nice, they handle fairly well, and they're engineered great but i just dont see the point personally in owning some of them. Yeah, i wouldnt mind any AMG 55 or 600 series but i could never afford that. Overall they just arent my style.

And to get on subject, to me the CTS-V may not have that "look @ me!" attitude to it like an M5 or E55 or so forth, but it has that "Hey, after i pass you, you'll say WHAT THE F*** " attitude which is what i think most everyone likes

Shinkaze

Care to explain that? I don't see the CTS-V beating a M5, E55 or RS6. The "old" M5 (E39) has been out of production and the "V" may just be faster than the outdated model, but the current M5 has a V10 and 500 HP. The CTS-V is a respectable car and if it came out 3 years ago it would have cleaned up the competition, but we were just a tad late to the party and those guys have moved on to the next level.

FWIW after substantual experience with an M5 and minimal experience in a CTS, I would have to say even at equal performance the M5 is still a much better car. If performance is the #1 criteria for what makes a car "great" then a Mustang Cobra is a night and day better car than the CTS (which I don't believe it is).

-Adam

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

This is not a BMW board so if we show a bias the reasons should be obvious.

I bet a CTS-V would whomp a M3 from a roll I have seen a M3 go all out from a 40 and a a 60 roll and as long as the CTS V is not a tank it's gonna go around it.

Shinkaze

Hmmm from a roll would be interesting, the M3 gives up some of it's weight advantage, the CTS-V gives up some of it's torque advantage, but then again the M3 is geared like a nuts, it has a single over-drive 6 speed vs a double overdrive 6 in the CTS, ..... hard to say until the CTS starts proving itself at the track. the M3 averages low 13s in the Qtr and I've seen a few crack 12.8 in stock form. The SMG cars are a bit slower and slower still are the ones with premium package etc.

I have little doubt the M3 will leave the CTS in the corners though. In weight, size and tunning it's more at home in the twisties.

-Adam

FinalTA

iTrader: (1)

The current M5 has a V10 with 500HP?

TTopJohn

Minor problem with that statment. There is no current m5. The E39 M5 is out of production. The E60 M5 is not yet in production, even in europe. It has been shown in concept form, but that's it.

So the CTS-V is faster than the newest production M5, the E39.

steve_c

What were the M-car times?

You're telling me that a 3900lb CTS-V will lap better than a 3300lb M3?... don't think so...

Shinkaze

Comparison to a used E39 M5 is stacking the test to favor the CTS. The CTS-V only became avaialble for sale in the last 60 days, and the new M5 will be out in 6 months. So yes, I think it's better to compare it to the E60 M5.

Shinkaze

Yup, and a 7 Speed SMG II tranny. It will be available for sale in September. Here is a review.
http://www.germancarfans.com/News.cf...001/bmw/1.html

FWIW there is also a strong rumor of a M5 CSL hitting the streets in the next few years with 50 more HP and serious weight savings. Of course if it follows the lines of the M3 CSL then it will cost a fortune.

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Newer M5 sounds neat but it better be for $90K.

I bet a CTS-V with modest boltons will go mid 12's or better and nothing else out now will come close. High 11's with heads, and a small cam. Or put a blower or turbo on one and go low 11's... how much would it cost to sup up a an older M5 to run like that?

Shinkaze

It's not just performance though, that same argument would more easily justify a Mitsubishi EVO over a CTS-V.

Also the word on the street is that the new M5 will be priced with only a moderate gain over it's predeccesor so as to keep it in the leauge with it's competition (E55, RS6, S-Type R etc). So figure $75K-$85K.

As for the E39 M5 there are a ton of mods out for it, there are even a few running around making 650 RWHP in daily driver Supercharged form, but mods for the M5 are horrificly expensive. (Headers run $6K!!!)

-Adam

FinalTA

iTrader: (1)

So, there IS NOT a current M5 for sale that makes 500HP right? You just said so yourself. Comparing with cars that are not out yet is just a bit silly. I could say the CTS-V with the LS7 is gonna kick it's ***

Shinkaze

hehehe good point, but conversly I think it's better when comparing new cars to compare a car that came out last month with a car comming out this Summer rather than one that has been out of production for a year and isn't even the current generation car! That said and as mentioned above I don't really see anyone cross-shopping a $50K 400hp V8 CTS-V with a $80K 500hp V10 M5. More likely the CTS-V will be cross-shopped with a C55 AMG (out this Fall), S4, and M3... lord knows I am! But hey I'm cross shopping it with used M5's that can be had for $40K-$50K so I guess my argument is rather baselss huh?