BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Almost forgot valve seals too.

Will these fit the bill?
http://compare.ebay.com/like/3104010..._lwgsi=y&cbt=y

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Might as well buy a kit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS2-LS6-Comp...1058d5&vxp=mtr

Does this look like a great deal to you guys?

Shows yellow springs, I think the current LS6 springs are blue. Any conflicting info?

DMM

Again...Trunion upgrade is a waste of money for anything other than an early LS motor or any cam over .600" driven daily. Even on higher lift, it usually takes beating on the motor to puke them out...not counting the ones that randomly break, of course, but this can happen to any part at any time. Post over in GEN III motor section and you will get the same response. If you really feel the need for some reason, they are easy to do later on to help keep your $500 budget right now.

LS7 lifter supersedes every lifter now, every PN (LS1, LS6, etc.) now falls under the LS7 PN.

I would really stay off Ebay...go to the dealer and get the springs and seals. LS6 springs are $55 and valve seals are $60+/- ($30 ea for intake/exhaust). You don't need the valves (unless you want to pay the $$$ to have them ground), retainers, or locks. If you want an upgrade, get the LS9 springs...they're only $80. (I think they are the blue one's)

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Ok, trunion upgrade is out.

So now my list is:
LS7 lifters
LS6 springs
LS2 trays
Valve seals
Head Gaskets

Am I overlooking anything?

heavymetals

iTrader: (3)

With the history of spitting bearings out (ergo the upgrade), I don't understand the reluctance to upgrade a part that you are gonna remove anyway.

Whatever.

DMM

Looks good. Keep things simple if you are just doing a standard repair. There may be something else you need when inspecting everything, like a push rod. When I did the motor work in my Silverado, a few of the pushrod's had chewed up ends at the rocker, for example.

You can spend a lot of money really quick if you don't pump the brakes a little and take a look at what you need vs what you want.

DMM

It's not solely about a reluctance to perform this upgrade...OP stated he has $500 to work with, something I can relate to, LOL. In all honesty, if you were pulling the heads and had a $500 budget for everything...would you spend $150 on lifters and trays (that also have a history of going bad) that cannot be easily changed after reinstalling the heads or the trunion upgrade that can be? I challenge you to find someone that cannot have every rocker off this motor in 30 minutes.

Edit: Make sure you clean out every bolt hole...take an old bolt and grind a flat on it to use as a chase if you do not have one. Use brake clean and air to flush everything out of the bolt holes. If there is any liquid (coolant, etc) in the bolt holes you will crack the block! Making sure the threads are clean will guarantee accurate torque readings.

heavymetals

iTrader: (3)

If i was pulling the thing apart to "make it more reliable", I would replace the things that are known for causing problems.

Springs first, trunions second.

Also, everyone knows that the part that fails is the one you skipped.

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

You're 100 percent right about the coolant. You'll need to blow the holes out excessively before you bolt the heads back on, just to be sure.



That's the comp setup on the left vs the stock one on the right. The current rocker arm bearings are far more likely to wear than an exhaust valve, IMO. Once those needle bearings spew from the rocker arms, it's a mess.

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

I couldn't agree more.

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

This is some good discussion here. I'm looking at a pair of heads with 104k miles on them, likely not easy-driving for the 89k prior to my ownership. I'd like to feel comfortable knowing that they're going to last me a while longer. If a trunion upgrade is easy to do later, I don't mind pulling a valve cover. But if my current equipment might let go in the next 50k or so, it's something I'd like to address.

This is my first time digging into an engine and while I'm fairly capable, this is uncharted territory for me and I'm feeling it out.

$500 is not a strict budget, but more of a ballpark. A cam is obviously out of the question. I'm not going to be broke if I spend a little more on an upgrade, though.

So now guys, based on my situation is a trunion upgrade truly a waste of money?
This is the first time I'd heard about needle bearings failing.

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...questions.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...in-magnet.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...broke-off.html

just found 2 without really looking hard. they can be replaced with the heads attached to the block. That being said, if you were to have one fail, you would need to search for 66 needle bearings, and if not, they could be anywhere from your oil pan, to your pickup tube, oil pump, piston, etc.

I'm not trying to make you afraid so you'll purchase them, but, after seeing how chintzy the stock ones are made, especially without the caged bearings, It's definitely one of the first things I'd do to my car if I bought another V1.

DMM

Honestly, if it was me (and I have run a .601"/.609" lift supercharger cam on my OE rockers) I would not do it. Yes, the rockers can wear out and puke bearings. If you drive at 5k RPM all the time or have a .625" lift cam, yes it will happen faster...but you're staying with a stock cam.

I know we're all tearing you different ways, so I would start a posting over in the GEN III internal engine section and get a few other opinions...since you can see what the opinions here are.

I have worked on A LOT of LS motors and have never seen the rockers take a **** even with cams...only time I have seen them go bad is on the internet (by no means am I saying that this does not occur, just that I have never witnessed it personally).

Granted, it certainly won't hurt anything...but neither will going with a forged rotating assembly...which is also an unnecessary expense given how you will drive your car with stock cam and no power adder.

Really not trying to lead you wrong here...go ahead and get a few outside opinions.

DMM

This is what I have been saying....first one is a '99, second is a '98...the third had a TREX cam (.608"/.612")...and was probably an early model as well.

"45k on the motor. I'm thinking the Trex cam didn't help any."

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

i mean yeah, the forged crank is 900 bucks, and you're not gonna have the block apart while you're putting heads back on, i mean i see where you're coming from... does it NEED to upgrade the rockers? Nope. For peace of mind on a top end that you're going to have on a bench anyway, why not? It's like 100-135 bucks, and the peace of mind is there.

etcts-v

When I did the trunion upgrade I was shocked at how many of those tiny needle bearings were in the stock ones and how much of a mess they made when I pressed the bearings out, damn things went flying everywhere!

If you had one of those fail, you would have to tear the entire engine apart to find all those tiny bastards and I'm sure they would get crammed in areas that would be a biotch to get to (inside the oil pump, oil valleys, etc) which is one major reason I went for it. In the grand scheme of things $140 is worth every penny if you can fit it in your budget..

Thanks just my 2 pennies!

heavymetals

iTrader: (3)

Those are not the only ones either!

I thought that way until someone showed be a blown up lifter that had puked bearings.

I have too much money and time invested in my motor to ignore engineering shortcomming **** like this.

The GM replacement (if you don't feel comfortable doing the bearings yourself) is an updated design.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-t...-one-fail.html

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

i got him in touch with a guy who sells the built ones, no cores required, for 140 i think i paid.

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Alright, got both the heads off. But I've noticed that the sensor at the very rear of the valley pan has the wires pulled out of it. Is this the cam position sensor? I know exactly when this happened--it was when I pulled the O2 sensor wire down to the PS header. I'm pretty confident I can re-pin it so no worries.

etcts-v

Possibly the sensor on the back of the intake manifold? I ask because I did the exact same thing, pulled the manifold off and ripped the wire right out of the harness. Easy fix though just got a replacement harness for $5 and re-soldered them up.

If you have a picture of the wires I can tell you what it is, I'm really familiar with all those sensors right now because I just re-hooked up all of the wiring harnesses on mine a few days ago and had to use the factory service manual to identify a few.

The sensor lying in the middle of the valley cover with the red notch is the one I pulled out:

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/124/photoxni.jpg