Post What Fuel System You're Running!
12-02-2012, 09:59 AM
#62
ahh, no worries, I know all about the joys of modding. The Procharger install was quite interesting a few years back...
Im just waiting on some items to test fit as well for the tank.
That eForce is crammed in there, nice fit!
Im just waiting on some items to test fit as well for the tank.
That eForce is crammed in there, nice fit!
12-12-2012, 10:01 PM
#63
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Thread Starter
Alright! I have been draggin my *** here and will have definitive information on this in the next week. I'll be dropping the fuel tank and cradle to figure this out and install my new subframe bushings as soon as they arrive.
Apologies to everyone here!
Apologies to everyone here!
12-16-2012, 01:34 PM
#65
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Thread Starter
Alright, so I finally got everything in gear and have the tank down. I have no idea how everyone is getting the modules out by cutting an access panel, the friction rings took me forever to get off...always a first. Here's what we have:
Module opening: Std GM...4 11/16"
Top of the module ledge to the bottom of the tank: 5 7/8"
Fuel pump module free height: 7 1/2" (Same for driver's side pick-up/float)
In tanks cross-over dia.: 1/2"
Fuel sender: 40.1 ohm's empty; 250.3 ohm's full
Looks as if the V2 unit may be a drop in solution from what Carl has stated. He said it needed between 5 1/2" - 7" compressed height in order to function, with 6 1/2 being the ideal "sweet spot".
Anyone have any other questions, speak now! LOL!
Edit: I'll get a little deeper here...when I dropped my tank, I was right at "E". The driver's side of the tank was bone dry and the only remaining fuel was in the passenger sump. So, it seems (as Carl described) that the jet pump (that is driven by the output of the fuel pump) siphons fuel from the divers side first before it draws from the passenger sump.
A few observations:
- The second fuel module in the drivers sump will not work b/c the module draws this empty first under normal conditions. The only way to remedy this is to always run 3/4 full or higher, which is not a viable solution.
- The jet pump on the OE module is tiny! The output of the fuel pump is piped to the jet pump, then from the jet pump to the fuel outlet. I can see why Aeromotive says the jet pump is too small to feed their 340 LPH in tanks pump, its tiny.
Module opening: Std GM...4 11/16"
Top of the module ledge to the bottom of the tank: 5 7/8"
Fuel pump module free height: 7 1/2" (Same for driver's side pick-up/float)
In tanks cross-over dia.: 1/2"
Fuel sender: 40.1 ohm's empty; 250.3 ohm's full
Looks as if the V2 unit may be a drop in solution from what Carl has stated. He said it needed between 5 1/2" - 7" compressed height in order to function, with 6 1/2 being the ideal "sweet spot".
Anyone have any other questions, speak now! LOL!
Edit: I'll get a little deeper here...when I dropped my tank, I was right at "E". The driver's side of the tank was bone dry and the only remaining fuel was in the passenger sump. So, it seems (as Carl described) that the jet pump (that is driven by the output of the fuel pump) siphons fuel from the divers side first before it draws from the passenger sump.
A few observations:
- The second fuel module in the drivers sump will not work b/c the module draws this empty first under normal conditions. The only way to remedy this is to always run 3/4 full or higher, which is not a viable solution.
- The jet pump on the OE module is tiny! The output of the fuel pump is piped to the jet pump, then from the jet pump to the fuel outlet. I can see why Aeromotive says the jet pump is too small to feed their 340 LPH in tanks pump, its tiny.
Last edited by DMM; 12-16-2012 at 02:00 PM.
12-17-2012, 11:44 AM
#67
Though the jet pump may appear to be tiny, their performance is quite good. Part of the validation process that I performed to make sure the fuel modules would work correctly in older flat-bottom only tanks was to check the jet pump performance. They can provide enough fuel to overflow the module under most any normal circumstances. Higher voltage and low-pressure applications are a different monster. Too low a fuel pressure reduces the jet pump capacity. Too much voltage and the module reservoir may run out of fuel at low fuel levels. More voltage/BAP's can be used but care should be exercised to not have long WOT sessions at low fuel levels.
The jet pumps are the primary means to keep the reservior full. The equalization valve (umbrella) on the bottom is only there to fill up the module on intial fill and to keep the fuel level high when the tank level is low. It's a pretty small hole, but big enough to perform its intended function.
There are several jet pumps built into the CTS-V modules. One is for remote pickups. This is what the nipple on the side of many modules is for. The jet pump creates suction, and hence the remote pickup will constantly be trying to deliver fuel to the module, even when that side of the tank is empty. This is why the remote section of the tank will always draw down first. The other jet pump is built into the base of the reservoir. This jet pump will fill the reservior when the remote section of tank is empty and when the fuel level falls below the top level of the reservoir.
The jet pumps are the primary means to keep the reservior full. The equalization valve (umbrella) on the bottom is only there to fill up the module on intial fill and to keep the fuel level high when the tank level is low. It's a pretty small hole, but big enough to perform its intended function.
There are several jet pumps built into the CTS-V modules. One is for remote pickups. This is what the nipple on the side of many modules is for. The jet pump creates suction, and hence the remote pickup will constantly be trying to deliver fuel to the module, even when that side of the tank is empty. This is why the remote section of the tank will always draw down first. The other jet pump is built into the base of the reservoir. This jet pump will fill the reservior when the remote section of tank is empty and when the fuel level falls below the top level of the reservoir.
12-17-2012, 10:22 PM
#69
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Though the jet pump may appear to be tiny, their performance is quite good. Part of the validation process that I performed to make sure the fuel modules would work correctly in older flat-bottom only tanks was to check the jet pump performance. They can provide enough fuel to overflow the module under most any normal circumstances. Higher voltage and low-pressure applications are a different monster. Too low a fuel pressure reduces the jet pump capacity. Too much voltage and the module reservoir may run out of fuel at low fuel levels. More voltage/BAP's can be used but care should be exercised to not have long WOT sessions at low fuel levels.
The jet pumps are the primary means to keep the reservior full. The equalization valve (umbrella) on the bottom is only there to fill up the module on intial fill and to keep the fuel level high when the tank level is low. It's a pretty small hole, but big enough to perform its intended function.
There are several jet pumps built into the CTS-V modules. One is for remote pickups. This is what the nipple on the side of many modules is for. The jet pump creates suction, and hence the remote pickup will constantly be trying to deliver fuel to the module, even when that side of the tank is empty. This is why the remote section of the tank will always draw down first. The other jet pump is built into the base of the reservoir. This jet pump will fill the reservior when the remote section of tank is empty and when the fuel level falls below the top level of the reservoir.
The jet pumps are the primary means to keep the reservior full. The equalization valve (umbrella) on the bottom is only there to fill up the module on intial fill and to keep the fuel level high when the tank level is low. It's a pretty small hole, but big enough to perform its intended function.
There are several jet pumps built into the CTS-V modules. One is for remote pickups. This is what the nipple on the side of many modules is for. The jet pump creates suction, and hence the remote pickup will constantly be trying to deliver fuel to the module, even when that side of the tank is empty. This is why the remote section of the tank will always draw down first. The other jet pump is built into the base of the reservoir. This jet pump will fill the reservior when the remote section of tank is empty and when the fuel level falls below the top level of the reservoir.
12-18-2012, 10:33 PM
#71
The jet pump can be anywhere as long as it has high-pressure fuel available to make it work. The newer modules use a much smaller feed hose to the jet pump since only a small amount of fuel is needed. The design/placemetn depends on the fitment envelope, the designers creativity, and the cost.
12-19-2012, 09:41 AM
#72
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Good to know! Have you done any testing on the jet pump on the V1 module by chance? I know Areomotive stated their 340 lph pump was too much for the OE jet pump to maintain an adequate fuel supply in the bucket, so that is why I am wondering. No worries, not trying to engage you in an entire debate regarding a statement made by a manufacturer, however I think it would be nice for everyone here to know what the actual OE limitations are.
Anyhow, I will be dropping the tank again this evening, revisiting our conversation after a few hours of sleep I clearly understand what you require. Should have already done this, however I made the fatal mistake of looking at a calendar and realized I needed to start my Xmas shopping, LOL!
Anyhow, I will be dropping the tank again this evening, revisiting our conversation after a few hours of sleep I clearly understand what you require. Should have already done this, however I made the fatal mistake of looking at a calendar and realized I needed to start my Xmas shopping, LOL!
12-19-2012, 10:50 PM
#73
I have not tinkered with the V1 module so I don't know its limitations. However, I would tend to believe Aeromotives statement about the jet pump capacity. The jet pump as designed only needs to keep up with the fuel output of the stock pump plus some safety factor. During operation the jet pump should constantly overflow the reservoir.
An example of what happens when the fuel pump capacity is increased can be found in the new ZL1 fuel module. The LS3 module has one jet pump on the bottom of the reservoir plus one for the remote pickup. The ZL1 module looks almost identical, but the pump is larger and there is a secondary jet pump. This is needed to keep up with the additional fuel demand.
An example of what happens when the fuel pump capacity is increased can be found in the new ZL1 fuel module. The LS3 module has one jet pump on the bottom of the reservoir plus one for the remote pickup. The ZL1 module looks almost identical, but the pump is larger and there is a secondary jet pump. This is needed to keep up with the additional fuel demand.
12-20-2012, 11:11 AM
#75
Good to know! Have you done any testing on the jet pump on the V1 module by chance? I know Areomotive stated their 340 lph pump was too much for the OE jet pump to maintain an adequate fuel supply in the bucket, so that is why I am wondering. No worries, not trying to engage you in an entire debate regarding a statement made by a manufacturer, however I think it would be nice for everyone here to know what the actual OE limitations are.
Anyhow, I will be dropping the tank again this evening, revisiting our conversation after a few hours of sleep I clearly understand what you require. Should have already done this, however I made the fatal mistake of looking at a calendar and realized I needed to start my Xmas shopping, LOL!
Anyhow, I will be dropping the tank again this evening, revisiting our conversation after a few hours of sleep I clearly understand what you require. Should have already done this, however I made the fatal mistake of looking at a calendar and realized I needed to start my Xmas shopping, LOL!
Im running the DW300 with a Kenne Bell BAP and racetronix harness
Im interested in knowing that the V2 assembly fits or not. I remember the tank looking like it will not rest on the bottom. The G8 crowd has a dual pump option by a vendor with a return line that might fit if the V2 assembly fits. http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=32231
Last edited by psychobillycaddy; 12-20-2012 at 11:18 AM.
12-20-2012, 11:39 AM
#76
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I have a complete spare pump with lines and the secondary sender/pickup. If Carl wants one to test I am more than willing to loan it out. I don't really want to sell it just incase my dad has an issue with the pump in his car but I will loan it for testing/measuring.
12-20-2012, 11:51 AM
#77
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Thread Starter
I had our stock bucket flow bench tested by Deatchwerkes with the DW300. I posted it some time ago. Our bucket has a restriction which is why we need a high pressure pump and not simply a high volume.
Im running the DW300 with a Kenne Bell BAP and racetronix harness
Im interested in knowing that the V2 assembly fits or not. I remember the tank looking like it will not rest on the bottom. The G8 crowd has a dual pump option by a vendor with a return line that might fit if the V2 assembly fits. http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=32231
Im running the DW300 with a Kenne Bell BAP and racetronix harness
Im interested in knowing that the V2 assembly fits or not. I remember the tank looking like it will not rest on the bottom. The G8 crowd has a dual pump option by a vendor with a return line that might fit if the V2 assembly fits. http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=32231
12-20-2012, 12:02 PM
#78
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Bad news fellas...
Damien,
I don't believe the CTS-V2 will work. The reservoir diameter is 4-7/8" at its largest point. GRRR!
The V2 hat definately won't fit.
Carl
Damien,
I don't believe the CTS-V2 will work. The reservoir diameter is 4-7/8" at its largest point. GRRR!
The V2 hat definately won't fit.
Carl