How much power will I have?
12-23-2012, 08:05 AM
#22
I looked at dyno charts of the Streetsweeper and the MS3. I understand that unless the conditions and dynos are exactly the same there could be some differences. What I believe I saw was the 2 cams peak in HP and Torque in almost exactly the same place and power under the curve as very close as well. Maybe there is something that I am not seeing. School me.
Regarding the two cams, did you look at dyno sheets for them on the same car? They are totally different cams. If the power and torque curves look the same, I would say something is off in your frame of reference.
The MS3 is 237/242 and 112 LSA (your choice of LSA)
Calculated overlap is 15.5 degrees
The Streetsweeper HT is 228/232 at 111 LSA
Calculated overlap is 8 degrees
Based on the degrees of overlap, the cams should behave quite differently.
12-23-2012, 10:05 AM
#23
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I don't disagree with what you are saying and I am not being a smart *** so if it came off that way I am sorry. I did mention that I have no idea the temp,humidity,elev,type of dyno that they were run on but the were both M6 cars. You are very correct in that the overlap will hurt low end performance and I had a oh **** moment until I looked at the charts. I try not to get hung up completely on what others say but rather to take constructive input and use it to my advantage. I appreciate what everyone has to say and I am looking forward to putting it together so I can see how well it does. I was looking through dyno charts and it is so hard to find something that is close enough to call it a fair comparison that I won't even post any. I should be doing the swap next weekend.
12-23-2012, 10:11 AM
#24
Not in the least, man. You're one of the guys whose posts I read carefully because I always learn from you. I honestly feel a little weird contradicting guys that know their **** like you, 54inches, DMM, etc. I'm just a guy that's been doing a lot of thinking and talking to a number of tuners. Really, a good tuner is who you want to be talking to about this.
Last edited by DACTARI; 12-23-2012 at 10:23 AM.
12-23-2012, 11:14 AM
#25
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I am not by any means a good tuner but I can work through about everything except properly tuning the VE table and scaling the MAF since those are kinds hard to do with out a dyno. I contacted Cincy Speed about a recommendation since I will have them tune it. Thanks for the compliment, when I started working on cars the only way to gain knowledge was books or mentors and I am well versed in the older cars but constantly learn about the current technology. I am glad to help and in turn appreciate all help I get.
12-28-2012, 06:55 AM
#26
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Talked to tuner at CS and I ended up ordering a different cam. It is a custom grind and is similar to the Street Sleeper in that it is a reverse split but has a wider LSA. I appreciate the advice sometimes you gotta drop back and punt.
12-28-2012, 08:16 AM
#27
What grind did you do with and why? I was headed in the same direction with the ms3 but maybe you can convince me why not. Also, to the guy who said you didn't like the ms3, why don't you?
12-28-2012, 12:13 PM
#28
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There are a couple of schools of thought but basically what I ended up changing to will give me more power lower in the curve and torque doesn't drop off drastically at higher rpm. The MS3 is a awesome cam but after doing more reading and talking to the tuner he told me why I would be better with something different which boiled down to driving style. I drive my car 45+miles a day and only flog on it a little and i dont make every shift at 6800. The MS3 is more suited to upper rpm operation which is ok for our cars but not exactly what i wanted. I have the specs at home for the cam, I chose and I will post them later.
12-28-2012, 12:53 PM
#29
Not in the least, man. You're one of the guys whose posts I read carefully because I always learn from you. I honestly feel a little weird contradicting guys that know their **** like you, 54inches, DMM, etc. I'm just a guy that's been doing a lot of thinking and talking to a number of tuners. Really, a good tuner is who you want to be talking to about this.
I try to keep my trap SHUT unless I have real world experience. And if I do, I try to preface my posts, that I am providing REAL WORLD experience.
I am fairly new to the scene, but I read ALOT on here. More than I post.
I think some of you cats are real *********, but those are few and far between.
The guys that I have met and PM'd alot have turned out to be great guys.
As far as LS cams, I don't know dick and I am trying to learn as fast as possible.
If it was a SBC, then I have a decent knowledge and a VERY good resource that I keep close to me.(family)
Don't feel bad for proving someone wrong as we can all learn from it, especially if they are preaching the truth and are even partially wrong.(CTSV speed bleeder thread,
)
As far as the topic goes, I originally thought about 425 to the ground, but you never know brother, you could put down 460.
No one here will be ale to tell you definitely as you could do the same mods to, two IDENTICAL vehicles and have a 30 hp swing.
That **** is real right that and REAL WORLD Experience.
Some one will be RIGHT in their GUESS, but that is all it is is a guess.
Are you giving away a prize for best guess?
12-28-2012, 06:17 PM
#32
By reverse split, do you mean longer intake duration than exhaust? I know spinmonster over on the corvette form has spec es a couple like that. I believe that's for situations where the tuner thinks the intake is more of a restriction than the exhaust. Are you running 3 inch pipes? Would love to hear your tuner's logic. Sounds really interesting.
12-28-2012, 06:26 PM
#33
What most guys actually want is a cam that growls and gives the. Power under the curve. The reason the Streetsweeper HT and other similar 228 cams do this has to do with building cylinder pressure that out motors like.
More later, gotta go feed a baby.
12-28-2012, 07:38 PM
#34
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Not in the least, man. You're one of the guys whose posts I read carefully because I always learn from you. I honestly feel a little weird contradicting guys that know their **** like you, 54inches, DMM, etc. I'm just a guy that's been doing a lot of thinking and talking to a number of tuners. Really, a good tuner is who you want to be talking to about this.
12-30-2012, 12:58 PM
#35
By reverse split, do you mean longer intake duration than exhaust? I know spinmonster over on the corvette form has spec es a couple like that. I believe that's for situations where the tuner thinks the intake is more of a restriction than the exhaust. Are you running 3 inch pipes? Would love to hear your tuner's logic. Sounds really interesting.
12-30-2012, 05:21 PM
#36
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Choosing a cam is no easy task. I went to a local shop the does dyno tuning whit a tuner has been tuning basically since the beginning. I am using a recommended cam to go with my combo and hopefully it works out. I have to draw a line somewhere. As far as reverse splits being old school I don't get that at all. I don't think I ever saw a Chevrolet reverse split cam less than 10 years ago. Every dual pattern I have ever ran has favored the exhaust.
12-30-2012, 06:11 PM
#37
As long as the split isn't too big, it really will be neither here nor there. I do agree with it's itsslow that typically you don't want a reverse split duration in a car with freeflowing intake like yours. Like I said above, maybe your tuner is figuring your exhaust is even less restrictive or something. You should pass this cam rec by Predator Z and see what he says. He knows what he's talking about, he doesn't sell cams so he's unbiased, and he's direct and no nonsense.
12-30-2012, 06:17 PM
#38
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I have 1 7/8 obx headers, no cats, and 3 inch mandrel bent fabricated (by me) exhaust with a X pipe and MBRP mufflers. The intake system will be a FAST 92, LS2 TB, 102MM MAF, volant air box. At this point I just want to get my mods done and get tuned so i can have some fun. I am going to have to wait until after Barret Jackson though I have to go out there with 4 cars and we aren't finished with them yet.