Sway bar bushings
03-19-2013, 06:38 PM
#21
You lose some of your side to side compliance with stiffer swaybars. That's the point but it really does affect the ride if your roads are uneven. I try to keep them stock or really close on a daily driver. It's just preference.
Has anybody found a urethane bushing for the stock bars? Probably could find some just off pictures and a few measurements.
Has anybody found a urethane bushing for the stock bars? Probably could find some just off pictures and a few measurements.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 03-19-2013 at 06:46 PM.
03-19-2013, 07:04 PM
#22
Side to side compliance? If anything, a super stiff swaybar coupled with very stiff linear springs might reduce the ability of your suspension to act independently, but based on my experience with 650/700 Eibach linear springs and the Hotchkis and Addco kits, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
03-19-2013, 09:33 PM
#23
I'm not worried, I'm sticking with stock bars. It will be less pronounced with stiff springs. On stock springs it will be way more noticeable. . I've played with cars enough to know my own preferences. I live in PA. It's like driving on the moon. Suspension travel and independence is an asset. Ground clearance comes in handy too. I'm sure your car handles great, but I wouldn't want that setup in a PA winter with 8" deep potholes everywhere.
03-19-2013, 09:37 PM
#24
03-20-2013, 04:02 AM
#27
I love the prices of V1 stuff. Of course, my last car was a BMW M3.
03-20-2013, 08:32 PM
#30
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And I can't say I've ever noticed the body lean because I'm too busy sliding around on the poor seats.
If you look to the right of the bushing, below the sway bar, you can see just the bottom portion of a black metal block - that's the spacer that Hotchkis includes, which accounts for the strange shape of the stock bushing bracket (seen here). By putting that block in there, you can use a normal U-shaped bushing bracket. You could recreate the same effect with a stack of washers or maybe some pipe nipples cut to the proper length.
What does an alignment have to do with sway bar bushings or swapping the sway bar?
03-21-2013, 08:52 AM
#33
Sorry for the confusion. Restatement: isn't it better to adjust understeer/oversteer through adjustments to your alignment and run the biggest bar you can find (without lifting a wheel, obviously)? That way, you maintain better posture through turns and keep air out from under the body.
03-21-2013, 09:49 AM
#34
I was merging aggresively onto a highway last night, and the car yawed back and forth in a manner that was unaccpetable to me. Is that something that be remedied by a front sway bar? Or is that a cradle bushing issue? My understanding is that the cradle bushings will manifest as more of a wiggle, but the sway bar as more of a yaw.
03-21-2013, 10:05 AM
#35
Not everyone wants to spend $500 when $25 will do the trick. And I can't say I've ever noticed the body lean because I'm too busy sliding around on the poor seats.
I wouldn't say they provide major improvements - I'd say they're just a fine tuning thing.
There was a noticeable improvement in ride quality when I took the front Hotchkis bar off and went back to the stock front bar. Handling balance was better, too, so it was a win-win for me.
I'm using either Prothane or Energy Suspension 26mm poly bushings with the Hotchkis billet bushing brackets on my stock front bar.
If you look to the right of the bushing, below the sway bar, you can see just the bottom portion of a black metal block - that's the spacer that Hotchkis includes, which accounts for the strange shape of the stock bushing bracket (seen here). By putting that block in there, you can use a normal U-shaped bushing bracket. You could recreate the same effect with a stack of washers or maybe some pipe nipples cut to the proper length.
And I can't say I've ever noticed the body lean because I'm too busy sliding around on the poor seats.I wouldn't say they provide major improvements - I'd say they're just a fine tuning thing.
There was a noticeable improvement in ride quality when I took the front Hotchkis bar off and went back to the stock front bar. Handling balance was better, too, so it was a win-win for me.
I'm using either Prothane or Energy Suspension 26mm poly bushings with the Hotchkis billet bushing brackets on my stock front bar.
If you look to the right of the bushing, below the sway bar, you can see just the bottom portion of a black metal block - that's the spacer that Hotchkis includes, which accounts for the strange shape of the stock bushing bracket (seen here). By putting that block in there, you can use a normal U-shaped bushing bracket. You could recreate the same effect with a stack of washers or maybe some pipe nipples cut to the proper length.
03-21-2013, 10:14 AM
#36
If the body of your car is rolling around its axis of motion, a stiffer sway bar will help with that. Yaw is this:
Are we on the same page? If you managed to do that, you're probably jerking the car around, since most production cars are set up to have a large amount of understeer by default (and therefore aren't prone to swapping ends).
Are we on the same page? If you managed to do that, you're probably jerking the car around, since most production cars are set up to have a large amount of understeer by default (and therefore aren't prone to swapping ends).
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 03-21-2013 at 10:21 AM.
03-21-2013, 10:24 AM
#37
If the body of your car is rolling around its axis of motion, a stiffer sway bar will help with that. Yaw is this:
Are we on the same page? If you managed to do that, you're probably jerking the car around, since most production cars are set up to have a large amount of understeer by default (and therefore aren't prone to swapping ends).
Are we on the same page? If you managed to do that, you're probably jerking the car around, since most production cars are set up to have a large amount of understeer by default (and therefore aren't prone to swapping ends).
So, I'm a little short on cash. What's the best sway bar upgrade for this car-- front or back. It feels like the car is rolling much more up front to me, but that could be just because that's where I'm sitting.
03-21-2013, 10:36 AM
#38
I think you'll get different answers from different people. Personally, I like more of a GMPP setup (huge front bar) to flatten out the body, combined with aggressive alignment settings that reduce understeer. The result is very crisp response to inputs and very little body lean--even when pushing the car to 1.1+ lateral G.
A couple of people have already asked to buy my spare front bar, whenever I figure out which one I want to get rid of. If you don't care about weight or want the stiffest sway bar available, the front Addco bar is about $200.
Keep in mind that stiffer springs and lowering the car (which lowers the car's center of gravity) will also have a significant impact on body lean. You won't be perfectly flat during casual driving until you do all three, but each change will be noticeable.
A couple of people have already asked to buy my spare front bar, whenever I figure out which one I want to get rid of. If you don't care about weight or want the stiffest sway bar available, the front Addco bar is about $200.
Keep in mind that stiffer springs and lowering the car (which lowers the car's center of gravity) will also have a significant impact on body lean. You won't be perfectly flat during casual driving until you do all three, but each change will be noticeable.
03-21-2013, 10:43 AM
#39
I think you'll get different answers from different people. Personally, I like more of a GMPP setup (huge front bar) to flatten out the body, combined with aggressive alignment settings that reduce understeer. The result is very crisp response to inputs and very little body lean--even when pushing the car to 1.1+ lateral G.
A couple of people have already asked to buy my spare front bar, whenever I figure out which one I want to get rid of. If you don't care about weight or want the stiffest sway bar available, the front Addco bar is about $200.
Keep in mind that stiffer springs and lowering the car (which lowers the car's center of gravity) will also have a significant impact on body lean. You won't be perfectly flat during casual driving until you do all three, but each change will be noticeable.
A couple of people have already asked to buy my spare front bar, whenever I figure out which one I want to get rid of. If you don't care about weight or want the stiffest sway bar available, the front Addco bar is about $200.
Keep in mind that stiffer springs and lowering the car (which lowers the car's center of gravity) will also have a significant impact on body lean. You won't be perfectly flat during casual driving until you do all three, but each change will be noticeable.
Lowering would be unwise for me, given that I live in the city. I think front sway bar, either Addco or GMPP, along with alignment would be the best choice. So you may have a GMPP bar for sale? They're out of production currently, right?
03-21-2013, 01:02 PM
#40
I was only referring to GMPP insomuch as their front bar was much larger in proportion to the rear bar. You could achieve the same effect if you found a used front Hotchkis bar and left the rear stock, for instance.