New V1 Bolt on Twin Turbo Kit
11-04-2013, 04:10 PM
#41
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The kit sounds really neat, out of my price range while building my 55 Chevy, but neat. If I had a lower mileage nice V I would consider it for sure.
I also want to thank the guys who are offering their input, both positive and negative. It bothers me that people sometimes blindly (Not saying thats whats happening here) support a product that may have issues. I had a friend and my brother both buy Innovate wide bands from that were featured in a magazine, and recomended by some on forums. My friend is on his 3rd in 150 miles and my brother had one die in a week, but the second seems to be lasting almost a year now.
Great to see a new possible product for our cars.
I also want to thank the guys who are offering their input, both positive and negative. It bothers me that people sometimes blindly (Not saying thats whats happening here) support a product that may have issues. I had a friend and my brother both buy Innovate wide bands from that were featured in a magazine, and recomended by some on forums. My friend is on his 3rd in 150 miles and my brother had one die in a week, but the second seems to be lasting almost a year now.
Great to see a new possible product for our cars.
11-04-2013, 04:58 PM
#43
The kit sounds really neat, out of my price range while building my 55 Chevy, but neat. If I had a lower mileage nice V I would consider it for sure.
I also want to thank the guys who are offering their input, both positive and negative. It bothers me that people sometimes blindly (Not saying thats whats happening here) support a product that may have issues. I had a friend and my brother both buy Innovate wide bands from that were featured in a magazine, and recomended by some on forums. My friend is on his 3rd in 150 miles and my brother had one die in a week, but the second seems to be lasting almost a year now.
Great to see a new possible product for our cars.
I also want to thank the guys who are offering their input, both positive and negative. It bothers me that people sometimes blindly (Not saying thats whats happening here) support a product that may have issues. I had a friend and my brother both buy Innovate wide bands from that were featured in a magazine, and recomended by some on forums. My friend is on his 3rd in 150 miles and my brother had one die in a week, but the second seems to be lasting almost a year now.
Great to see a new possible product for our cars.
I wouldn't say their support is 'blind' at all.
11-04-2013, 05:11 PM
#44
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I know a company willing to build a twin kit cheaper with there turbos. They have kits for GTO and G8 already. Really nice company. When I talked to them they just needed somebody to drop there V off a month or two. I was going with them but decided to do something else with my car. From what they told me the price would be 5500-6500 for every thing but a fuel pump. So I know it can be done in that price range.
11-04-2013, 05:15 PM
#45
companies build many things for GTO and G8 but not for us. We have a very cramped engine bay and honestly not many active owners who are looking to spend big on one item. just not enough of a market.
11-04-2013, 08:50 PM
#46
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then, please contest one of my points. I don't want to blindly rehash what was said previously, trying to address the point you're concerned about. But here's one token example, for fun:
say hello to water ingestion. Not to mention the possibility of rocks and roadside fod punching a hole in those filters and getting sucked into the turbo. Definitely not suitable for daily driven cars. Without a protective casement (which seems like a no brainer), the only thing i can see this configuration being suitable for is dyno testing and the strip. Definitely not the track, since you won't be able to do any suspension work whatsoever without snagging one of the 3" tubes running beneath the subframe:
say hello to water ingestion. Not to mention the possibility of rocks and roadside fod punching a hole in those filters and getting sucked into the turbo. Definitely not suitable for daily driven cars. Without a protective casement (which seems like a no brainer), the only thing i can see this configuration being suitable for is dyno testing and the strip. Definitely not the track, since you won't be able to do any suspension work whatsoever without snagging one of the 3" tubes running beneath the subframe:
why did you post these pictures? This wasnt even what his first system ended up looking like, these were first stages of design work, many things changed. The system we are designing now have pretty much all of your concerns eliminated.
There will be intake pipes off the turbo that put the filters up under the manifolds with heat shields
wastegate dumps will be recirculated, not out the rocker panel
the turbos will be tucked up tighter to the trans and floor boards.
Scavange system will be plug and play with its own wiring harness and relay.
The (2") piping that goes to the intercooler from the comp housings will be ovalized piping, and will tuck up flush with the frame, to allow lowered cars more ground clearance.
We have been discussing pricing, and went to the drawing board multiple times to see what we can do.
We have come up with a total price with everything that was listed still included for 6500.00$
11-04-2013, 08:56 PM
#47
TECH Fanatic
I know a company willing to build a twin kit cheaper with there turbos. They have kits for GTO and G8 already. Really nice company. When I talked to them they just needed somebody to drop there V off a month or two. I was going with them but decided to do something else with my car. From what they told me the price would be 5500-6500 for every thing but a fuel pump. So I know it can be done in that price range.
I have to say that I am pretty amazed that everyone is trying to kill this...I would have done this in a heartbeat. For Christ sake...the measly Maggie 112 kit is now $6500 for about 450 whp. Despite the arguments about what B's car made on the dyno, the video's of the street kills he posted were the proof as far as I'm concerned. A 224/224 cam on 115 LSA with this twin turbo kit would be absolutely ridiculous.
As for the tuned exhaust...we're not talking Honda's here and there's a reason people use the flipped factory manifolds. They flow very well and cast iron is much better than steel for a turbo since it retains the heat better and is less prone to damage/cracking.
11-04-2013, 08:58 PM
#48
I posted those pictures because they were the only ones available. I'm glad you're working on making the system more robust.
11-04-2013, 09:03 PM
#49
TECH Fanatic
Put the rain and water stuff to rest...it's not a factor with reliability, performance or longevity.
I agree the driver side is optimum for snaking an intake pipe. The part where you speak of customer service is where I drop the idea of a mail order kit. Something like this needs expert techs on call to resolve issues.
I'm interested in your plenum box - do you have sketches or can share more details?
I agree the driver side is optimum for snaking an intake pipe. The part where you speak of customer service is where I drop the idea of a mail order kit. Something like this needs expert techs on call to resolve issues.
I'm interested in your plenum box - do you have sketches or can share more details?
11-04-2013, 09:10 PM
#50
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No... I was actually talking about this kit and company http://www.uppcos.com/product_info.p...roducts_id=352 There is a few vettes and gto running them. I guess some of them could tell you how they are holding up. When I talked to them they acted very willing to build a kit for us if he had a car for mocking up a kit.
11-04-2013, 09:17 PM
#51
TECH Enthusiast
11-04-2013, 09:25 PM
#52
Nope. I still think the original setup was a flaming pile. You need to recognize that criticism is a valuable contribution to any discussion. Many car people are so accustomed to having others blow smoke up their a**, regardless of the quality of their work, that it freaks them out when someone criticizes their design. Personally, I shrug off complements because they don't teach me anything--the people that give me crap for not doing a better job are the people whose opinion I value.
If I thought the shop or the design wasn't amenable to improvement, I wouldn't bother saying anything. My silence (or lack of willingness to engage in debate) is a clearer indication of disgust than any criticism you'll see me write. Also, for the record, people need to stop strongly attaching their sense of self worth to others' perception of their car. Some of the best people I know drive bad cars, or don't know how to maintain their cars.
If I thought the shop or the design wasn't amenable to improvement, I wouldn't bother saying anything. My silence (or lack of willingness to engage in debate) is a clearer indication of disgust than any criticism you'll see me write. Also, for the record, people need to stop strongly attaching their sense of self worth to others' perception of their car. Some of the best people I know drive bad cars, or don't know how to maintain their cars.
Last edited by FuzzyLog1c; 11-04-2013 at 09:35 PM.
11-04-2013, 09:33 PM
#53
why did you post these pictures? This wasnt even what his first system ended up looking like, these were first stages of design work, many things changed. The system we are designing now have pretty much all of your concerns eliminated.
There will be intake pipes off the turbo that put the filters up under the manifolds with heat shields
wastegate dumps will be recirculated, not out the rocker panel
the turbos will be tucked up tighter to the trans and floor boards.
Scavange system will be plug and play with its own wiring harness and relay.
The (2") piping that goes to the intercooler from the comp housings will be ovalized piping, and will tuck up flush with the frame, to allow lowered cars more ground clearance.
We have been discussing pricing, and went to the drawing board multiple times to see what we can do.
We have come up with a total price with everything that was listed still included for 6500.00$
There will be intake pipes off the turbo that put the filters up under the manifolds with heat shields
wastegate dumps will be recirculated, not out the rocker panel
the turbos will be tucked up tighter to the trans and floor boards.
Scavange system will be plug and play with its own wiring harness and relay.
The (2") piping that goes to the intercooler from the comp housings will be ovalized piping, and will tuck up flush with the frame, to allow lowered cars more ground clearance.
We have been discussing pricing, and went to the drawing board multiple times to see what we can do.
We have come up with a total price with everything that was listed still included for 6500.00$
Last edited by philistine; 11-04-2013 at 09:40 PM.
11-04-2013, 09:42 PM
#54
$6500 is a deal considering the beauty of turbos is you can throw a boost controller on it and make 430rwhp or 650rwhp with the turn of a ****. Not to mention its easier to put down power with a turbo then with a roots blower. I bet you 5-6psi you cna make your stock clutch and diff last a long time compared to a maggie car.
11-04-2013, 09:43 PM
#55
Two, general, business ideas that might make this kit particularly interesting:
- Financing options (e.g. Paypal offers an easy 6 month option) or the ability to buy and install the kit in modular chunks.
- Developing/offering the kit with a clearly marked upgrade path. Have a stock engine? Here are your small, inexpensive turbos. Have a 408 stroker? Try these 76mm turbos--they fit right where your old ones went.
11-04-2013, 11:17 PM
#57
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Two, general, business ideas that might make this kit particularly interesting:
- Financing options (e.g. Paypal offers an easy 6 month option) or the ability to buy and install the kit in modular chunks.
- Developing/offering the kit with a clearly marked upgrade path. Have a stock engine? Here are your small, inexpensive turbos. Have a 408 stroker? Try these 76mm turbos--they fit right where your old ones went.
67mm on .70 a/r housings are as big as you can go before the comp housing becomes too large to keep it flush or above the frame line.
The system on Brandons car made 580rwhp on low boost (6 psi) and 725rwhp on 11, all at the push of a button.
11-04-2013, 11:47 PM
#59
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6,500 I would be in after I see fitment. The fit and finish would have to be top notch, charge pipes and intake are my biggest concerns right now. oil and water lines for the turbo or just oil? I would prefer to run my engine coolant through the turbos for better cooling...
11-05-2013, 04:28 AM
#60
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Not to derail off topic but what's your problem with innovate widebands? I know close to 20 people who use them and have used them myself. If you have an issue, get an RMA and send it back. They'll look at it and if it doesn't work, they'll just send you a new one. Mine was 2 years old and had no receipt and I still got a new one at no cost in two weeks. Can't really beat that for an extremely fast lambda sensor at super low cost.
I wouldn't say their support is 'blind' at all.
I wouldn't say their support is 'blind' at all.
I not just talking about Innovate stuff either. I read a magazine article about a TKO 600 install, it had shifting problems at over 6k rpm and they said it just needed break in and left it at that, with no follow up of course. A friend of mine has the same trans, bought brand new, in his Camaro. Like most people he expected to be able to shift it at 6500 like the old muncie that was in it. Well at those kind of rpms the trans acted like 3rd wasnt even there and after sending it back to D&D for work (who did there best to take care of him) he still had issues and contacted Liberty gear. He ended up have Liberty do some syncro work to it so he could use it and works great now, he's actually running a 10.30 in the quarter right now. I asked a Tremec rep at the power tour about the situation, he said "Oh no, they wont shift quickly above 6k rpm." Now I have never seen anything in their literature or magazine articles stating that they are not ok for high rpm shifts. There are complaints all over the internet about it, but vendors act like its the best transmission ever. The rep told me to get a t56 for that kind of use.
I guess I feel like alot of people leave out important information for marketing purposes, and welcome people that question the quality and design of new parts. As long as its constructive and not just blind bashing of a product of course.
Last edited by 81LS1Camaro; 11-05-2013 at 05:03 AM. Reason: added info