Question about headers, CEL
12-01-2013, 08:44 AM
#1
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Question about headers, CEL So I purchased my 05 V about 4 weeks ago, used, as-is from a dealer. They took it in on Friday,min showed up on Monday morning and bought it. The car has some unknown aftermarket headers and exhaust. The car sounds great and idles fine, pulls just fine without any issues.
My CEL came on last Wednesday. I scanned it and it was a rear 02 sensor. Now, I wasn't driving it daily, maybe once/week, but I did drive it about 200+ miles before it came on.
At first I thought maybe it just needs a tune, but if it wouldn't have been tuned before, wouldn't there be issues when driving it from the headers?
My CEL came on last Wednesday. I scanned it and it was a rear 02 sensor. Now, I wasn't driving it daily, maybe once/week, but I did drive it about 200+ miles before it came on.
At first I thought maybe it just needs a tune, but if it wouldn't have been tuned before, wouldn't there be issues when driving it from the headers?
12-01-2013, 10:13 AM
#2
My car ran perfect with headers and exhaust and no tune. What code did you get exactly? In tuning they usually just turn off those rear O2s in case high-flow or no cats are used. That dealer may have just cleared the code and then sold it knowing it would pop back up a week later of driving.
12-01-2013, 10:22 AM
#3
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Unless the code was cleared before and it just finished all the drive cycle requirements in order to throw the code. I would think it would have cut on way before 200 miles though.
If its a rear o2, then its definitely a tune issue IMO. I had my rear o2s deleted in tune since I'm running catless.
If its a rear o2, then its definitely a tune issue IMO. I had my rear o2s deleted in tune since I'm running catless.
12-01-2013, 10:25 AM
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The cats are there (but I'm not sure if they are just hollowed out), it was the rear left 02 sensor, iirc. I should also note that bought the car in Illinois, but I live in MO, so I don't think tuning the cats out is an option.
Edit: is there anyway to determine if the car has been tuned? Without going to get a new tune, that is?
Edit: is there anyway to determine if the car has been tuned? Without going to get a new tune, that is?
12-01-2013, 11:17 AM
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Lack of cags light and cags being enforced is quickest way to identify a tune. I have headers/cats tune and get codes for o2 but doesn't trip cel. Depends how tuner handles it.
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12-01-2013, 11:37 AM
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Thanks for the tip!
12-01-2013, 12:02 PM
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I would get a tune done. Only reason to wait is if your adding more go fast parts soon or troubleshooting a different issue that might affect the tune performance.
12-01-2013, 12:13 PM
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Therein lies the issue. I am seriously considering a cam, with the headers already in place, but the rear is stock, so not sure if I should do anymore with it, or just tune it, clean it up and be happy.
12-01-2013, 12:22 PM
#11
If you have headers (long tube type), it will never pass the OBDII test as the drive cycles will never initiate.
http://www.obdii.com/drivecycle.html
Contact me for the work around.
In Calif. (the worst state to live in for exhaust mods) you have to pass OBDII and a sniff test.
Plus, they can fail you (visual inspection) for modified exhaust (headers) or intake.
SMOG NAZIES.
They did announce (with great fanfare) how AB2289, was gonna "streamline" the process by having OBDII testing only, but they postponed it for two years because they are inept.
One other thing.
I just dumped $1.5k into my exhaust to get it to pass emissions (replaced the cats).
It ain't cheap to fix.
http://www.obdii.com/drivecycle.html
Contact me for the work around.
In Calif. (the worst state to live in for exhaust mods) you have to pass OBDII and a sniff test.
Plus, they can fail you (visual inspection) for modified exhaust (headers) or intake.
SMOG NAZIES.
They did announce (with great fanfare) how AB2289, was gonna "streamline" the process by having OBDII testing only, but they postponed it for two years because they are inept.
One other thing.
I just dumped $1.5k into my exhaust to get it to pass emissions (replaced the cats).
It ain't cheap to fix.
Last edited by heavymetals; 12-01-2013 at 01:05 PM.
12-01-2013, 05:08 PM
#12
There are 5 flags for the drive cycle. PA allows you to pass by meeting 4 of 5. The non foulers got me by that. (But I'm on stock manifolds and high flow cats) nobody noticed them during the visual. No sniffer here at all. Just obdii and visual.
It's not as strict as CA here for sure. But for $6 or so, it's an easy first stab. Maybe his area isn't as bad as CA.
It's not as strict as CA here for sure. But for $6 or so, it's an easy first stab. Maybe his area isn't as bad as CA.
12-02-2013, 08:47 AM
#13
Ok. Unless they put a sniffer in the pipe like in Cali, then you can have a tuner delete the rear O2's in the computer and it will pass OBD II all day. Most states run OBD II emissions testing now but when the function is not there, the computer will not see it and it will pass. I have done this in several states PA, NY, TX etc. As to your problem OP O2 sensors do go bad....The headers will not give a code for the cats. High flow cats may, no cats, obviously. You do not need a tune (although most benefit from one) you can simply go to a tuner and have them shut off the rear O2's usually costing anywhere from 50-150$ which is much cheaper than a tune. Then drive the car for a full drive cycle and get it inspected. Visual inspection (for most states) just check to see if there are cats there. Which it looks like I have cats on my car, but they are dummies and empty. Also, there are two rear O2's, which one is your code for? Should be bank specific. If only one is tripped then I would assume that sensor has gone out, if both are tripped, then I would assume you have dummy cats and you need to have the rear O2's shut off. That, or you are unlucky and need two new sensors. Good luck!
12-02-2013, 09:24 AM
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Ok. Unless they put a sniffer in the pipe like in Cali, then you can have a tuner delete the rear O2's in the computer and it will pass OBD II all day. Most states run OBD II emissions testing now but when the function is not there, the computer will not see it and it will pass. I have done this in several states PA, NY, TX etc. As to your problem OP O2 sensors do go bad....The headers will not give a code for the cats. High flow cats may, no cats, obviously. You do not need a tune (although most benefit from one) you can simply go to a tuner and have them shut off the rear O2's usually costing anywhere from 50-150$ which is much cheaper than a tune. Then drive the car for a full drive cycle and get it inspected. Visual inspection (for most states) just check to see if there are cats there. Which it looks like I have cats on my car, but they are dummies and empty. Also, there are two rear O2's, which one is your code for? Should be bank specific. If only one is tripped then I would assume that sensor has gone out, if both are tripped, then I would assume you have dummy cats and you need to have the rear O2's shut off. That, or you are unlucky and need two new sensors. Good luck!
12-02-2013, 10:12 AM
#15
Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure that we have to pass the sniffer in my area (St. Louis, MO). Should I get the tune anyway? Like I mentioned, the car seems to run without issues, and after consideration, I likely will leave the car as-is, no further mods in the near future.
12-02-2013, 11:02 AM
#16
MO Smog and Emissions Testing
The Missouri smog and emissions testing program is referred to as the Gateway Vehicle Inspection Program (GVIP), and is regulated by the Missouri State Highway Patrol (SHP) and the Missouri Department of Natural Resources (DNR).
You must complete a Missouri emissions test in addition to the safety test if your vehicle is registered in one of the following areas:
St. Louis City.
St. Louis County.
St. Charles County.
Franklin County.
Jefferson County.
Once you complete your emissions test, you will be given a vehicle inspection report (VIR) that lists the results of your test.
From what I read, it depends on what part of Missouri you are in, wether you get a sniff test or not.
Here is a link:
http://www.dnr.mo.gov/gatewayvip/
The Missouri smog and emissions testing program is referred to as the Gateway Vehicle Inspection Program (GVIP), and is regulated by the Missouri State Highway Patrol (SHP) and the Missouri Department of Natural Resources (DNR).
You must complete a Missouri emissions test in addition to the safety test if your vehicle is registered in one of the following areas:
St. Louis City.
St. Louis County.
St. Charles County.
Franklin County.
Jefferson County.
Once you complete your emissions test, you will be given a vehicle inspection report (VIR) that lists the results of your test.
From what I read, it depends on what part of Missouri you are in, wether you get a sniff test or not.
Here is a link:
http://www.dnr.mo.gov/gatewayvip/
12-02-2013, 08:00 PM
#17
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If the CAGS is working and CEL for O2, and cheap headers, chances are the PO was a cheapo and there's no tune. Find someone who will tune it and lessen the cost to retune for anything you do later. Or get the parts now and tune it ASAP.
12-02-2013, 10:11 PM
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Heavy's right. That's what I was referring to before. GVIP affects the St. Louis metro and requires emissions testing. Franklin, St. Charles, and Jefferson counties are the counties immediately adjacent to St. Louis county, which is surrounded by them and which contains St. Louis city.
12-03-2013, 08:29 AM
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Got in touch with a local tuner, said $50 to eliminate the CAGS and 02 codes, $350 for a full tune. I'm probably going to just go a full tune and call it a day.