Power steering cutting out.
07-06-2015, 06:20 PM
#1
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Power steering cutting out. so my power steering has been cutting out. 3 times now, but only after a high rpm pull. After I let it sit I get it back.
First time I just figured it might be an air lock or something. After the second time I flushed the whole system. But it just happened again. Luckily I was close enough to wrestle it home. Anybody experience this? I'm thinking time to replace the pump, but it doesn't make any odd noises. After it sits it's fine, but once I floor it???
First time I just figured it might be an air lock or something. After the second time I flushed the whole system. But it just happened again. Luckily I was close enough to wrestle it home. Anybody experience this? I'm thinking time to replace the pump, but it doesn't make any odd noises. After it sits it's fine, but once I floor it???
07-06-2015, 07:53 PM
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I did move it over, a couple inches. Was wondering if the pump has a internal valve to regulate the flow at high speed?
There is a plate with holes in my reservoir that's supposed to help with cavitation. But maybe your right.
There is a plate with holes in my reservoir that's supposed to help with cavitation. But maybe your right.
07-07-2015, 04:37 PM
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Gonna try bleeding the system as per the service manual and see if that works. Hoping that's the problem. I did replace the fluid when I had the engine out, I replaced the pressure line to the steering rack. But I never did bleed it (didn't know there was a procedure) so maybe the lack of bleeding it problem is now apparent because it the first time I can actually wot my car since then.
07-07-2015, 05:12 PM
#5
Mine never cut out but it's pretty much the only system on the car that completely sucks. Mine constantly needs attention. Fluid turns brown in about 2 hours, any under hood heat makes it push out of the cap, and it only half works in the winter, and makes a lot of noise if you don't switch to the 'cold weather fluid'.
What's the bleeding procedure? I bet mine could use it.
What's the bleeding procedure? I bet mine could use it.
07-07-2015, 05:33 PM
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Well if we have hydro boost steering assist, which I'm bleeding like we do. Put the front up on jack stands wheel off the ground. Start the car, pump the brakes like 15 times. Shut the car off, then turn the steering wheel to full lock like 12-15 times. My number of times might be off lol but I erred on the high side.
Then start the car and check fluid level, for noises and cavitation.
If any repeat the steps.
Watch you don't get fluid flowing over the reservoir when cranking the wheel, makes a mess, going slow will prevent that.
Then start the car and check fluid level, for noises and cavitation.
If any repeat the steps.
Watch you don't get fluid flowing over the reservoir when cranking the wheel, makes a mess, going slow will prevent that.
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07-07-2015, 06:57 PM
#8
They shouldn't be. I believe it's similar to the F-Body, except in the CTS there's the speed sensitive power steering. I just pulled up the bleeding instructions in the service manual and they're the same for both vehicles (requires a Mityvac)
Here's what I used to bleed the power steering in my Trans Am.
http://www.larescorp.com/wp-content/...structions.pdf
It should be sufficient for V as well.
Here's what I used to bleed the power steering in my Trans Am.
http://www.larescorp.com/wp-content/...structions.pdf
It should be sufficient for V as well.
07-07-2015, 07:54 PM
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Just wasn't 100% sure, the service manual says to pump the brakes with the car running if it has hydro boost. I couldn't tell wether or not the brake booster is attached to the steering rack. So I just pumped the brakes .
I've done procedure a half dozen times atleast, and still get a slight cavitation on start up, but no noises or leaks. I'm letting it sit for a bit, then I'll check it again. There was quite abit of air in the system at the beginning, but seems to be getting less.
I've done procedure a half dozen times atleast, and still get a slight cavitation on start up, but no noises or leaks. I'm letting it sit for a bit, then I'll check it again. There was quite abit of air in the system at the beginning, but seems to be getting less.
07-10-2015, 03:19 PM
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Bled the **** out of it, and it happened again. Drive it all day 5k and under its fine, soon as I punch it above 6k it cuts out.
Seems every time I bleed it I can get more air out of it.
Got a new pump on order but I don't think that's it. Maybe air getting in from somewhere even though no leaks?
Steering at lower speeds even seems to take more effort when I drove it this morning, but might even be in my head.
I'm stumped, want to eliminate all possibilities before dumping cash on a new rack.
Seems every time I bleed it I can get more air out of it.
Got a new pump on order but I don't think that's it. Maybe air getting in from somewhere even though no leaks?
Steering at lower speeds even seems to take more effort when I drove it this morning, but might even be in my head.
I'm stumped, want to eliminate all possibilities before dumping cash on a new rack.
07-14-2015, 11:30 AM
#12
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Just to make one thing clear. Our braking system does not have Hydro boost. That feature is commonly used on Heavy duty trucks where it relies on the the PS pump to provide assist in certain conditions of heavy braking when the engine is running low on vacuum.
So in our cases, Pumping the brakes does nothing for the PS pump.
Our PS Pump on the other hand has Magnasteer.
I pulled this info off the FAQ. Take a read through and it'll help explain how our system works and how you can go about diagnosing it before throwing parts at it. I'm not sure of the ramifications of moving the reservoir, but that could be playing into some potential flow problems that you may or may not have created by doing so.
Link here: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pwrsteer.html
"Can you explain the power steering that is on the V?
Thanks StealthV
Variable-assist power steering A power steering system that uses valves and speed sensors to vary the amount of steering assist according to engine or road speed. At slow speeds more steering assist is delivered and steering the wheels is easier; necessary for parking, etc.. At higher speeds, steering assist is reduced and more steering effort is required to steer the car, giving the driver greater feel of the road. Also known as Speed-sensitive power steering.
Variable-ratio steering A steering system where the steering ratio is not constant through the movement of the steering. Typically the amount of tire movement will be slow (lower ratio) when the wheels are straight, which reduces jerky steering while cruising down the road. However, when turning sharp corners the ratio of steering changes resulting in greater turning at the front wheels for each turn of the steering wheel -- which increases maneuverability
GM MAGNASTEER
In 1996, a more sophisticated type of variable-assist power steering developed by Delphi Saginaw Steering Systems, named "Magnasteer," was introduced on: Buick Electra, Le Sabre, Park Avenue and Reatta; Cadillac Eldorado, Seville STS and DeVille Concours; Chevrolet Corvette; Oldsmobile Aurora; and Pontiac Bonneville. In 1997, Magnasteer became standard on all Cadillacs and has since been added to a wide range of other GM makes and models.
Unlike EVO power steering systems, Magnasteer does not use an orifice valve to reduce pressure to the steering gear. There’s no solenoid or stepper motor involved. Instead, Magnasteer uses magnets to assist or resist steering input.
The Magnasteer control valve assembly is mounted on the steering rack in the same location as a regular control valve assembly on an ordinary power rack. Inside the base of the Magnasteer unit is a large electromagnetic coil. Just above the coil is an inner and outer pole assembly with a permanent magnet in the center. Steering feel is varied by changing the strength and polarity of the magnets, which in turn, is controlled by changing the pulse width and direction of the current to the coil.
On 1996 and 1997 applications, Magnasteer has its own separate control module. But on 1998 and newer applications, the Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM), which also oversees the operation of the anti-lock brake system, handles the Magnasteer control function.
On most applications, the only input the control electronics uses for Magnasteer is the vehicle speed sensor. At zero mph, a negative current of approximately two to three amps flows to the Magnasteer coil. This causes the magnets to repel each other, which in turn allows more deflection in the torsion bar inside the spool valve assembly. This increases fluid flow through the spool valve to the steering gear for maximum power assist when it is needed most.
As vehicle speed increases, current flow to the Magnasteer coil is gradually reduced. At about 45 mph, current flow to the coil hits zero and Magnasteer has no effect on the amount of power assist (which is determined only by the torsion bar and pump flow).
Above 45 mph, the direction of current to the coil is reversed and continues to gradually increase up to a maximum of about three amps at 75 to 85 mph. Reversing the polarity of the coil causes the magnets to attract each other, which has the effect of stiffening the torsion bar. This reduces the amount of deflection in the torsion bar that normally occurs when the wheels are steered and causes an increase in steering effort for better road feel and high-speed steering stability.
On some Magnasteer systems, such as that used in the Corvette, the Electronic Brake Traction Control Module (EBTCM) also looks at input from a steering wheel position sensor to determine if more or less steering assist is needed under certain driving conditions. The main purpose here is to reduce oversteer by reducing assist when excessive G-forces are detected.
Compared to conventional power steering systems, Magnasteer gives the driver a much broader range of power assist with a smooth transition from low to high speed. What’s more, the system can be recalibrated to modify steering feel using a Tech 2 or equivalent aftermarket scan tool. There are three settings: factory, firmer and less firm. Just follow the scan tool prompts and that’s all there is to it.
In 1998, a second generation "Magnasteer MAGe" system was introduced on some GM vehicles. This version of the system does not use a permanent magnet, but uses a redesigned electromagnet that has one pole mounted on the input shaft and the other on the pinion shaft.
At low speed, there is no current flow through the electromagnetic coil. The level of steering assist depends solely on the calibration (stiffness) of the torsion bar. As speed increases, current flow to the coil is gradually increased up to a maximum of several amps to decrease assist and increase steering effort. Magnasteer MAGe uses vehicle speed as its only input, so there are no changes in steering effort during sudden steering maneuvers.
DIAGNOSIS
Problems with electronic variable-assist systems include all of the same things that can go wrong with a conventional power steering system (leaks, center wear in the steering gears, pump & hose failures, etc.), plus problems with the control electronics including the vehicle speed sensor circuit, the solenoid valve and control module. Accurate diagnosis, therefore, is essential to minimize warranty returns. Most of these systems provide diagnostic fault codes that can be accessed with a voltmeter, test light or scan tool to pinpoint the nature of the fault (if the fault is electronic rather than mechanical or hydraulic).
If power to the solenoid or control valve actuator is lost, the valve keeps the bypass circuit closed so full power assist is provided under all driving conditions. The only indication of trouble, therefore, might be a loss of road feel and/or increased steering sensitivity at highway speeds.
It’s important to remember that variable-rate power steering only reduces the amount of pressure that reaches the steering gear at higher road speeds. The only way it could reduce power assist at low speed would be in the unlikely event the actuator or solenoid valve failed in the open position. This could cause a noticeable reduction or loss of power assist.
On GM’s Magnasteer racks, loss of current to the magnetic coils would cause a loss of power assist at low speed. Coil resistance can be checked with an ohmmeter, and should read about two ohms. An infinite (open) reading indicates a bad coil (requires replacing the rack since the coils are not serviceable). Checking for shorts between both sides of the coil assembly and rack housing is also recommended.
The system does have self-diagnostic capability, but there is only one fault code: C1241 (Magnasteer circuit malfunction). The code is set if the module detects an open or a short in the coil circuit. If this code is present, the Magnasteer system is disabled and will not vary the steering effort as vehicle speed changes. The C1241 body code can be read with a Tech 2 or equivalent scan tool. The Tech 2 tool can also be used to perform a Magnasteer function test. The test varies the current to the coil so you can check for a change in steering effort when turning the steering wheel.
Replacement racks for variable-assist power steering applications are available with or without an EVO control solenoid. As long as the original EVO control solenoid is working OK, it can be removed and installed on the replacement rack to save your customer a few bucks. There’s no need to replace the whole rack if only the EVO solenoid valve is defective.
On GM Magnasteer applications, the whole rack must be replaced if the rack or control unit is defective because the Magnasteer unit is part of the rack. Handle with care because the permanent magnets inside the Magnasteer valve assembly and connector are fragile and can be easily damaged."
So in our cases, Pumping the brakes does nothing for the PS pump.
Our PS Pump on the other hand has Magnasteer.
I pulled this info off the FAQ. Take a read through and it'll help explain how our system works and how you can go about diagnosing it before throwing parts at it. I'm not sure of the ramifications of moving the reservoir, but that could be playing into some potential flow problems that you may or may not have created by doing so.
Link here: http://www.cadillacfaq.com/faq/answers/pwrsteer.html
"Can you explain the power steering that is on the V?
Thanks StealthV
Variable-assist power steering A power steering system that uses valves and speed sensors to vary the amount of steering assist according to engine or road speed. At slow speeds more steering assist is delivered and steering the wheels is easier; necessary for parking, etc.. At higher speeds, steering assist is reduced and more steering effort is required to steer the car, giving the driver greater feel of the road. Also known as Speed-sensitive power steering.
Variable-ratio steering A steering system where the steering ratio is not constant through the movement of the steering. Typically the amount of tire movement will be slow (lower ratio) when the wheels are straight, which reduces jerky steering while cruising down the road. However, when turning sharp corners the ratio of steering changes resulting in greater turning at the front wheels for each turn of the steering wheel -- which increases maneuverability
GM MAGNASTEER
In 1996, a more sophisticated type of variable-assist power steering developed by Delphi Saginaw Steering Systems, named "Magnasteer," was introduced on: Buick Electra, Le Sabre, Park Avenue and Reatta; Cadillac Eldorado, Seville STS and DeVille Concours; Chevrolet Corvette; Oldsmobile Aurora; and Pontiac Bonneville. In 1997, Magnasteer became standard on all Cadillacs and has since been added to a wide range of other GM makes and models.
Unlike EVO power steering systems, Magnasteer does not use an orifice valve to reduce pressure to the steering gear. There’s no solenoid or stepper motor involved. Instead, Magnasteer uses magnets to assist or resist steering input.
The Magnasteer control valve assembly is mounted on the steering rack in the same location as a regular control valve assembly on an ordinary power rack. Inside the base of the Magnasteer unit is a large electromagnetic coil. Just above the coil is an inner and outer pole assembly with a permanent magnet in the center. Steering feel is varied by changing the strength and polarity of the magnets, which in turn, is controlled by changing the pulse width and direction of the current to the coil.
On 1996 and 1997 applications, Magnasteer has its own separate control module. But on 1998 and newer applications, the Electronic Brake Control Module (EBCM), which also oversees the operation of the anti-lock brake system, handles the Magnasteer control function.
On most applications, the only input the control electronics uses for Magnasteer is the vehicle speed sensor. At zero mph, a negative current of approximately two to three amps flows to the Magnasteer coil. This causes the magnets to repel each other, which in turn allows more deflection in the torsion bar inside the spool valve assembly. This increases fluid flow through the spool valve to the steering gear for maximum power assist when it is needed most.
As vehicle speed increases, current flow to the Magnasteer coil is gradually reduced. At about 45 mph, current flow to the coil hits zero and Magnasteer has no effect on the amount of power assist (which is determined only by the torsion bar and pump flow).
Above 45 mph, the direction of current to the coil is reversed and continues to gradually increase up to a maximum of about three amps at 75 to 85 mph. Reversing the polarity of the coil causes the magnets to attract each other, which has the effect of stiffening the torsion bar. This reduces the amount of deflection in the torsion bar that normally occurs when the wheels are steered and causes an increase in steering effort for better road feel and high-speed steering stability.
On some Magnasteer systems, such as that used in the Corvette, the Electronic Brake Traction Control Module (EBTCM) also looks at input from a steering wheel position sensor to determine if more or less steering assist is needed under certain driving conditions. The main purpose here is to reduce oversteer by reducing assist when excessive G-forces are detected.
Compared to conventional power steering systems, Magnasteer gives the driver a much broader range of power assist with a smooth transition from low to high speed. What’s more, the system can be recalibrated to modify steering feel using a Tech 2 or equivalent aftermarket scan tool. There are three settings: factory, firmer and less firm. Just follow the scan tool prompts and that’s all there is to it.
In 1998, a second generation "Magnasteer MAGe" system was introduced on some GM vehicles. This version of the system does not use a permanent magnet, but uses a redesigned electromagnet that has one pole mounted on the input shaft and the other on the pinion shaft.
At low speed, there is no current flow through the electromagnetic coil. The level of steering assist depends solely on the calibration (stiffness) of the torsion bar. As speed increases, current flow to the coil is gradually increased up to a maximum of several amps to decrease assist and increase steering effort. Magnasteer MAGe uses vehicle speed as its only input, so there are no changes in steering effort during sudden steering maneuvers.
DIAGNOSIS
Problems with electronic variable-assist systems include all of the same things that can go wrong with a conventional power steering system (leaks, center wear in the steering gears, pump & hose failures, etc.), plus problems with the control electronics including the vehicle speed sensor circuit, the solenoid valve and control module. Accurate diagnosis, therefore, is essential to minimize warranty returns. Most of these systems provide diagnostic fault codes that can be accessed with a voltmeter, test light or scan tool to pinpoint the nature of the fault (if the fault is electronic rather than mechanical or hydraulic).
If power to the solenoid or control valve actuator is lost, the valve keeps the bypass circuit closed so full power assist is provided under all driving conditions. The only indication of trouble, therefore, might be a loss of road feel and/or increased steering sensitivity at highway speeds.
It’s important to remember that variable-rate power steering only reduces the amount of pressure that reaches the steering gear at higher road speeds. The only way it could reduce power assist at low speed would be in the unlikely event the actuator or solenoid valve failed in the open position. This could cause a noticeable reduction or loss of power assist.
On GM’s Magnasteer racks, loss of current to the magnetic coils would cause a loss of power assist at low speed. Coil resistance can be checked with an ohmmeter, and should read about two ohms. An infinite (open) reading indicates a bad coil (requires replacing the rack since the coils are not serviceable). Checking for shorts between both sides of the coil assembly and rack housing is also recommended.
The system does have self-diagnostic capability, but there is only one fault code: C1241 (Magnasteer circuit malfunction). The code is set if the module detects an open or a short in the coil circuit. If this code is present, the Magnasteer system is disabled and will not vary the steering effort as vehicle speed changes. The C1241 body code can be read with a Tech 2 or equivalent scan tool. The Tech 2 tool can also be used to perform a Magnasteer function test. The test varies the current to the coil so you can check for a change in steering effort when turning the steering wheel.
Replacement racks for variable-assist power steering applications are available with or without an EVO control solenoid. As long as the original EVO control solenoid is working OK, it can be removed and installed on the replacement rack to save your customer a few bucks. There’s no need to replace the whole rack if only the EVO solenoid valve is defective.
On GM Magnasteer applications, the whole rack must be replaced if the rack or control unit is defective because the Magnasteer unit is part of the rack. Handle with care because the permanent magnets inside the Magnasteer valve assembly and connector are fragile and can be easily damaged."
07-14-2015, 05:53 PM
#13
Any idea why I'd be fighting between 'too full, fluid bleeds out the cap when hot' and 'power steering doesn't work till you add fluid'? It seems like there is no proper level especially between 90+ degree summers and sub-20 degree winters. (Minnesota people just bite your tongues. I know it's colder there). It's more of an annoyance than a problem and I'm not DDing anymore so whatever, but sometimes I still like to understand. Even if I sound dumb in the meantime.
07-15-2015, 09:23 AM
#14
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Any idea why I'd be fighting between 'too full, fluid bleeds out the cap when hot' and 'power steering doesn't work till you add fluid'? It seems like there is no proper level especially between 90+ degree summers and sub-20 degree winters. (Minnesota people just bite your tongues. I know it's colder there). It's more of an annoyance than a problem and I'm not DDing anymore so whatever, but sometimes I still like to understand. Even if I sound dumb in the meantime.
I would flush your system out thoroughly / Potentially replace the lines and add a real finned cooler instead of the standard loop given your geographical location.
07-25-2015, 12:15 PM
#15
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Update, I don't want to jinx myself. But replaced the pump, and put better hose clamps on the cooler line. Seems better, did a few wot pulls and the power steering stayed on. It does seem like it still gets some air bubbles in the reservoir prior to driving it, even after bleeding it numerous times. Not a lot, but still some. Haven't really paid that much attention before, because it was working, so??
Maybe it'll work the last of the air out of it while driving.
If it cuts out again I guess the next step is a new rack.
Maybe it'll work the last of the air out of it while driving.
If it cuts out again I guess the next step is a new rack.
07-26-2015, 12:11 PM
#16
Power steering cutting out. Do some more lock to lock steers and check the fluid level. Having the car lifted helps release the pressure on the components.
I have my new v2 pump and 6.5" pulley, once i reassemble my engine i am going to install the new parts and bleed while i am also breakin in the new engine.
I have my new v2 pump and 6.5" pulley, once i reassemble my engine i am going to install the new parts and bleed while i am also breakin in the new engine.
07-26-2015, 04:26 PM
#17
TECH Enthusiast
The way I bleed Power steering systems is raise the front end off the ground and do 30 Left to Right and 30 Right to Left Lock to Lock turns with the motor running. That should circulate all the fluid throughout if everything else is in order.