FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

When you look at the intended function of a double wishbone suspension, it is objectively better if the control arms cannot twist. Based on my experience and the feedback provided by other members, polyurethane bushings improve performance, not degrade it.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

May I take from your response that you feel that the trailing arms are enough of a single-action affair that the poly is good for it?

Confirm please that you watched the video? I am still not convinced but it scratched my head a bit.

Thanks.

WS6WRX

iTrader: (1)

Yep! And he sold lots of suspension parts for F-bodies too, since that's what he drove to win the AutoX Nationals. I never knew a fat Camaro could move like that.

Once I upgraded to his custom valved shocks, sway bars and springs, there was a definite improvement in my times.

WS6WRX

iTrader: (1)

Definitely. As the solid rear axle articulates during cornering, due to body roll, the control arm joint needs to twist. The poly bushings (in part due to stiffness, but mostly due to design) would bind and cause unpredictable snaps, which almost always resulted in unintentional over steer. Not exactly the type of behavior you want for daily driving, much less AutoX or road racing.

isis

iTrader: (1)

I worked on Justin Rothermel's STi in that era if you are familiar with the competition. He placed at least once, but never first. We're still good friends.

PLA TME

iTrader: (1)

seriously....we're waiting.....

jmilz28

iTrader: (13)

Strano's bars and either of his shock packages were **** for f-bodies. I WISH he would come out with a simple Bilstein kit for our cars. I'd buy right now. Heck, I'd buy a Koni kit too, but I always loved the Bilsteins on stock springs with sways. I actually put that arrangement on my old suburban. You'd be shocked how well it handles and still rides nice.

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Fuzzy, what's your take on the lower rear control arm bushing (inner to the subframe)?

I've looked and it appears this bushing isn't offered but the smaller outer bushing is (OEM). I haven't removed that control arm, but looking down the side with it in place I believe I see rubber. Am I mistaken?

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

Mercier and Bud, I read both of your questions but need more time to answer them. To answer Mercier's question, I have to **** on the F-body polyurethane bushing vendors as well as Creative Steel's imitations of the Revshift designs. Diagrams will be involved.

To answer Bud's question, I need to finish refurbishing some spare rear V1 LCAs (a previously low priority task) and take some pictures of the process. Both bushings are available, but pressing them out is extremely hard. I almost broke my 10 ton arbor press trying to get the rusted originals out. I need a bigger press.

A while back, Creative Steel offered pictures of adjustable "rear spring perch delete" lower control arms, but for one reason or another they never became real products. The idea was sound; the only real problem is that most people don't want to delete the perch. What we really need is a narrower, adjustable length spring perch. The camber adjustment slots on the rear subframe are basically unusable since they're tucked up under the bumper.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

I haven't watched any videos, but simply put, the trailing arm and upper and lower control arms are describing different arcs. The UCA and LCA have the ball joints on the rear knuckle, so that's no problem. But there needs to be some play somewhere between the trailing arm and the UCA/LCA/knuckle - as the trailing arm moves up and down, it's going to try to move the knuckle fore and aft.



I have a poly bushing in the knuckle where the trailing arm attaches, and I have the old MAP trailing arms, which have a Delrin (or Delrin-like) front bushing/joint. I have GMPP UCAs, which (apparently) have firmer rubber bushings. With what I've got thus far I think it would be inviting significant bushing bind to go all poly in the LCA; maybe one end or the other, but not both ends.

Huh, my car must be different than yours. Have yours been rear-ended really, really hard?



Seriously, I think the rear camber adjustments are easily accessible. Yes, the exhaust pipes are there, but that's not much of an impediment.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Forgive the n00b question here but could you narrate me to the location of those adjustments in the pic?

Thanks!

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

In that last pic you can see the bolts with nuts on them sticking out the back of the end of the subframe. Those are the LCA mounting bolts. Camber adjustment is done by loosening those and sliding the LCA in or out.

TorchRedRob

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, mine pop like a SOB. Annoying as all hell. Any last word on the fix? I'm about to order the revshift LCA bushings because I can't keep these from popping no matter what I do (I haven't dremeled anything- if I take these back out, I'm not dremeling, I'm replacing).

My opinion is that the inside of the bushings is completely open (no flange), so all the grease just runs out that end. You can also see the gap between the non-flanged side and the inner metal sleeve opens up at least an 1/8" if you turn the wheels back and forth while it's on the rack.

If someone can tell me how to keep the grease in these, I'm all about it, but at this point I'm ready to plop in the revshifts and see if they are better. They don't have a wide open path for water to wash out the grease, so I'm hoping that will help. I'm a fan of all the other CS products I have, but these LCA bushings are really p!ssing me off.

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

I can't say I'm having the same problem. Do you have any photos of the 1/8th inch gap? I'm having trouble picturing where you'd be seeing that. Popping would indicate some sort of excessive wear as opposed to a lack of lube which squeaks, wouldn't it?

As far as the revshifts, there are no grease provisions from what I see. Dropping a control arm to grease them annually to semi annually sounds like a pain, especially considering an alignment may be necessary.

AAIIIC

iTrader: (19)

I'm having a hard time visualizing the 1/8" gap, too.

As for greasing the Revshift ones, I drilled my control arms for zerks:



I also used a belt sander and palm sander to reduce the thickness of the Revshift bushing flanges. They were too thick, so they would've generated all sorts of unnecessary binding against the mounts.

TorchRedRob

iTrader: (1)

Here's a photo taken looking up and toward the back of the car (the rearmost mount of the LCA). I circled the gap in red. This is about 1/16 or less, but I saw it get bigger when the steering wheel was being actively turned. This is where it settled at full lock.

The popping is more like a stick/slip in the bushing. It's not wear- the bushings were installed in September and it started doing it within a few weeks. I thought it was steering/tie-rods/etc., but two different shops diagnosed it as the bushings. I didn't bias them- I just said I have a popping noise while steering, please take a look. They both called me out to take a look and you can tell the popping is coming from the bushings. You can feel it if you put your hand on the LCA by the bushing, too.

It also goes away every time it rains, because the water gets in there and acts as a lube. Once the roads dry up, popping returns. I can't even get it to hold grease- it just takes the path of least resistance, i.e., straight out the end with no flange. You can see in the photo where it comes straight out. I figure at least the revshifts will have the other flange to provide some protection from water ingress and also some pressure resistance to force the grease to fill the gaps instead of running straight out.

TorchRedRob

iTrader: (1)

Here's a video of the sounds:

BudRacing

iTrader: (3)

Ah, I see now. I'm working from home today, so I went to the garage to jack up a corner and snap a picture to see if mine were the same. I also have the metal sleeve exposed, but I don't see grease pouring out of it. What type of grease are you using?

TorchRedRob

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for checking it out. In the pic I'm using the super lube, but I just ordered cv-2 .

TorchRedRob

iTrader: (1)

Just a quick follow up and shout out to Creative Steel. Jordan saw my posts today and contacted me- we're working through it. As always, CS customer service is awesome.