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Well, I made the F14s happen by drumming up enough support from the community. So I guess they're "custom-ish." That'll never happen again for the V1 platform because that 6-lug design requires safety certification and there isn't a big enough market to justify doing another, even smaller run.
If you want a custom offset, you'll have to look at 5x115 or 5x120 wheels. Forgestar has certified enough combinations of wheel offset and diameter to pretty much do anything you want. They're constantly tweaking their designs, by the way. Supposedly, the V1 wheel run was an example of their second iteration F14 design, which was about a half pound lighter than the stuff they previously did at approximately the same size and offset.
Thanks for this info regarding safety certification. It really brings our limitations into the light, especially for those who have never ordered custom wheels before. How much does a safety certification generally cost?
Originally Posted by FuzzyLog1c
The next step up is wheels like HRE FF01 that cost another thousand dollars per set. If you want forged wheels like the HRE P101, plan to spend $2400-2600 per wheel.
I'm assuming the per wheel price quoted here is accounting for that certification for a one-off set of wheels?
Thanks for this info regarding safety certification. It really brings our limitations into the light, especially for those who have never ordered custom wheels before. How much does a safety certification generally cost?
I'm assuming the per wheel price quoted here is accounting for that certification for a one-off set of wheels?
I may have caused more confusion than I cleared up.
Wheel manufacturers are obliged by some countries or governing bodies to pass certain safety test standards before their products can legally be offered for sale for use on road vehicles (e.g. the European Union's UN/ECE 124 standard, Japan's JWL light alloy wheel standard, and Germany's TUV standard).
You'd have to look into the fine print on each specification, but each specification prescribes limits on what's commonly referred to as "qualification by extension," which means that in some cases, a slight modification to a previously qualified wheel design can be passed (with appropriate technical justification) without requiring that wheel to undergo testing. Although I don't understand the technical reasons, wheels with a different number of lugs or lug spacing require separate qualification whereas a slight difference in offset does not (perhaps only if the manufacturer has already qualified wheels with offsets that span the new wheel's offset).
Therefore, even though Forgestar had VIA JWL-certified 19x9 +40 and 19x10 +42 F14 wheel designs in 5x115 and 5x120, and one or two 6x120 designs for the Dodge Viper, none of those designs were similar enough to the V1 6x115 design to permit qualification by extension. The cost to qualify the CTS-V1 F14 wheel design through VIA (Vehicle Inspection Association of Japan... an independent testing organization specializing in JWL testing and certification) was amortized by Forgestar across all the wheels sold. That's one reason why Peter @ Forgestar was unwilling to greenlight the engineering effort until I could prove that enough wheels could be sold to justify the engineering and qualification costs.
That said, if you're looking for a 5x115 or 5x120 copy of a F14 within the already qualified range of sizes and offsets available, Forgestar (or any other company) should have no problem building you one since it's already qualified, either directly or by extension.
i sell wheels. i know exactly what they cost and that there's tons of other options out there besides those F14s...
so again, if you're going to 5 lug swap there's no reason to pigeon hole yourself into the same exact wheel you could have already had before you swapped to a new lug pattern. that's an absurd idea even if they wheels look good. the minor improvements you're going to get by tweaking the width and offset from what they have available in 6 lug is going to net you nothing.
now, going with a completely different wheel, wheel spec, wheel company....that's a valid reason to swap.
PS - HRE has their own flow formed wheel sets now that would be comparable to the forgestar wheels in quality, but carries the HRE name. there's also plenty of true monoblock forged wheels, or multi-piece wheels, that would be a good option as well. there's way more to offer than just the few companies you think qualify as reputable.
I pursued Forgestar for the V1 because I thought they had the best product in the < $1800 price range. If you have any alternatives to recommend, I'm all ears.
once you start to realize that MOSTLY all the wheels are the same (there's some stragglers, obviously) you can just lump them into these categories: cast, rotary/spin forged/flow formed, forged monoblock, multipiece.
there's a lot of companies in the mid range right now, but none besides forgestar that's going to go out of their way for a 6 lug set that they can sell 5 sets of.
With this is being more your department Bio, my plan was to go 5 lug and measure for offset and backspacing needed to fill my wells up completely with no compromise. Forgestar offers that, on all the wheels, I was even hoping to make their CF10 work. So its nothing against other companies, just one I am aware of that doesn't break the bank. So if you can throw more names at me that would be appreciated
anyone that makes a "rotary forged" wheel (or whatever name their company uses) will most likely be able to machine from blanks and offer customized offsets.
i can't advertise. i'm not a vendor here and i'm not paying the vendor fees in order to be one. going to have to PM me or find me on facebook where i do most of my work.
i have access to all of the forgestar inventory so i can tell you they're one of the closer companies to being truly "custom" since most of their inventory is blanks that they machine to spec.
however, companies like avante garde and stance do a lot of "custom" with their flow formed wheels. otherwise other companies like rohana, TSW, vertini, and VMR carry specific sizes that they'd spec for certain cars, but also carry blanks if you'd want something different than what they'd offer. typically a swing in offset 10mm or less one way or another isn't going to help you fit any more tire on the car, but the width of the wheel and tire width will play more into that than anything.
if you wanted to go really big with the wheels a 9.5 +40 in front and 10.5 +45 in the rear is going to be pretty big and allow you to run whatever huge tire you think you need, but i've always been a firm believer that the actual tire plays more of a role in traction than the section width ever will...
i have access to all of the forgestar inventory so i can tell you they're one of the closer companies to being truly "custom" since most of their inventory is blanks that they machine to spec.
however, companies like avante garde and stance do a lot of "custom" with their flow formed wheels. otherwise other companies like rohana, TSW, vertini, and VMR carry specific sizes that they'd spec for certain cars, but also carry blanks if you'd want something different than what they'd offer. typically a swing in offset 10mm or less one way or another isn't going to help you fit any more tire on the car, but the width of the wheel and tire width will play more into that than anything.
if you wanted to go really big with the wheels a 9.5 +40 in front and 10.5 +45 in the rear is going to be pretty big and allow you to run whatever huge tire you think you need, but i've always been a firm believer that the actual tire plays more of a role in traction than the section width ever will...
Thank you for the info boss, I have a wheelrite, so after my move and my garage is built, I will take measurements and share it. I agree with the actual tire playing a major roll over just width, but if I can get more of that actual tire on pavement, thats a plus
If this helps I have 19x9.5 rear wheels with an offset of 56mm and a 12mm spacer for a total offset of 44mm. Flush with the fender. Fits a 275 tire without rubbing. Without the spacer the 9.5" wheels rub around corners on the stock trailing arms. I also prefer the flush look. With the CS wide trailing arms a 10" wheel would be a piece of cake and you'd easily fit a 295. I can't imagine needing much more. You'd probably also end up more prone to pushing the front around corners due to those tire size limitations and in your case the added weight from the iron block.
If this helps I have 19x9.5 rear wheels with an offset of 56mm and a 12mm spacer for a total offset of 44mm. Flush with the fender. Fits a 275 tire without rubbing. Without the spacer the 9.5" wheels rub around corners on the stock trailing arms. I also prefer the flush look. With the CS wide trailing arms a 10" wheel would be a piece of cake and you'd easily fit a 295. I can't imagine needing much more. You'd probably also end up more prone to pushing the front around corners due to those tire size limitations and in your case the added weight from the iron block.
Yea that gives me an idea of where to start, first I need to upgrade the springs, CS Wide Wheel Trailing Arms and maybe the STS Spindles. Then I will order a base cts hub and take my measurements, will most likely order one wheel for the rear and front at a time to make sure i dont go completely invested until I know it works
19x9.5 +30 puts you dead even with the fenders on a "normal" alignment both front and rear. that doesn't leave you any room to run a nice tire, though. not only did i run a 245/35 on those wheels, but i also ran -3.3* of camber all around to clear everything well. i never rubbed the fenders, but i did rub the inner tubs up front a lot from being very low.
now that i'm at a regular ride height i want to get realigned less aggressively. the new wheels will be 19x9.5 +40 and i'll be running a 255/35 for a more square tire. i'm hoping it'll be a bolt on and go procedure now that i've already run something more aggressive, and lower.
Ok. I see what you're saying now. "Flush" has definitely become one of those slang words that gets misconstrued. In my case, I was using it in the traditional sense where it means "completely level or even with another surface."
Didn't you say you were running -3.3* of camber with the minimum tire size just to fit? I wouldn't exactly call that a normal alignment. The bottom of the wheel then extends out beyond the fender. I think in my photos it was around the mid -2*s on H&R springs with MM spacers. The spacer at the time was actually a full 1/2" (13mm), so the effective offset was 43mm, BUT that caused tire rub even with the fender lip rolled so I shaved off 1mm from the rear spacers and that was enough to stop the rub.
Given you work in the industry, I consider you a credible source. I just wouldn't want someone reading this thinking that a 30mm offset is what they should get to be flush when the reality is that tire size and camber settings are then compromised just to fit them. If we were talking about a few MM difference it would be negligible, but 14mm is a big difference. I understand that from a style perspective 40-44mm may be conservative, but when it comes to tire clearance on a car that's meant to grip, it's what works.
I just wanted to clear that up for anyone in the future who reads through this thread.
In summary, a 30mm offset can work, but you have to go heavy on the negative camber and run a slimmer tire to make it tuck on a lowered car.
that's why i said what i said with details on why i said it. 9.5-10" +40-45mm is about where most people want to stay in the rear with a 8.5-9" front in the +35mm range.
05-09-2017, 10:47 AM
