SMARTCTSV

Mallett Cars... I sent 2 of my CTS Vs to his shop in OHIO... I was choosing between lingenfelter and mallett... after my research I found Mallett was a much better choice... I have one getting his standard package and im dropping a 427 most likely in the other car. His CTS V WON the car and driver supercar shoot out i belive it was... and im pretty sure it also won the fastest to 150mph... Everyone at Mallett is nice and CHUCK the owner is a great guy he will explain everything to you.. And not only does he do CTSV he does XLRs... EScalades... Corvettes.... Im really satisified so far... I cant wait to drive my car when it get backs to NYC here saturday... I will post how it is... Mallett also how a lot of different options not only engine.. but suspension..shifter.. etc... so uhhh .... yeaaaa... MALLETTTTTTTTT

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

ITs odd that you mentioned the racing CTS-V's, I was in MP shop yesterday, and they have someone's CTV Race car on a lift foing some sort of engine conversion. It was painted like a sponsored race car. Not sure whos it is.

They have also done a ATI D-1SC in a CTS-V
Bryan

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Im curious, everyone has said that MP was so much more expensive how much is Mallett charging for the 427 in the CTS-V, I know what lingerfelter charges, over $40K.

SMARTCTSV

It depends on what you do to the car ... I just got one of my cars tonight and my god is it perfect.. it sounds amazing...from the engine to the exhaust just sounds mean.... the shifter is perfect.... Great car and excellent installation.. im pleased... I dont know who builds Cadillacs factory CTSVs however..... peace

HPSFlorida

I would assume that a knowledgeable tuner/engine builder would ask what it is the customer is going to be doing with thier car and analyzing what it is the goal of the upgrades are. Example, drag racing. show car, street/strip autocross and once this was determined then the shop should put together a list of parts that complement this goal.

It should leave the right oil in it for god sake, and if this customer stated to mp that he was going to autcrossing it maybe they should of put the right oil pan on. It just seems you are really not expecting to much for your 40K.

with upgrades such as this there is going to be problems, but they should not be this major. The wrong oil in it and it shutting off at the end of the street is unnacceptable. That car should be test driven and test driven until it is perfect, then delivered. If the shop building can not break it then i probably can not either. Just my opinion which most of the time my wife says it doesnt mean anything anyways. Good luck!

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

I think you make very valid points. However, I believe that what happened here, is that the customer was given a quote, and several suggestions were made in regards to upgrades for the car. The customer chose not to take them, as is the case much of the time. Many people do not have endless budgets even at $20,000 for an engine. They figure they will spend the money on the engine and upgrade everything else later. There is really a bunch of clueless people on this forum. Some people should not even own a car let alone be able to work on one or tune one. There is a whole lot of guessing going on.

More Performance did not design my engine.....I did. I gave them the parts that I wanted them to use, and I was told that there were no promises on what the results would be. Now I can take this one of two ways. One would be they only like using their parts, so they can makes scads of money and they may damage my stuff, just so they can repair it.

Option 2, They have experience working with certain vendors, and know and trust those parts.

I chose to believe in option 2.

TOO MANY PEOPLE come to them and the likes, trying to be know-it-alls. All MP can do is make a suggestion, if the purchaser doesn't want to take that direction, what is MP to do. They say, we will do it, but there no promises. Every shop out there is exactly the same way. EXACTLY. Lingerfelter included. MP cannot help that the guy came back to get his car and said I have to have it. MP cannot also help that the guy drove it to the end of the road with the new tune, and it cut off and he kept driving. If he thought there was a problem them he should have turned around. MP cannot help that the car comes with an oil pressure gauge and the guy was too stupid to look at it. MP has been building engines for sometime, and have been using Mobile one their cars for some time. Just like you and everyone else. Did anyone take the time to do the research including you, to notice that 10w-30 is not as stable as 5w-30 or did you just assume like everyone else that when it gets hot it is ok to just throw in 10w-30. I called MTI and Lingerfelter, and neither of them believed what I had to say. What did MP put in my car, 10w-30. When I notice my oil pressure go down, then into the red just before it shut the car off, I knew right then what had happened. Is it there faught, I dont think so. I went home did the research and fixed the problem by going with Amsoil 0w-30. I unplugged my electric water pump and let the temp rise to see the effects on the oil temp, and pressure and there was no change. Problem fixed.

When you build a custom car, you have to take on certain responsibilities. So does the installer, but there is a point when the installers responsiblities end and where the owners begin. When I went to Ok City, OK to pick up my newly installed Northstar Fiero, I had to drive it 20 hours to get to Daytona for a show. Then another 6 back to Charlotte. When I left the car felt a little loose. But I kept going, even at speeds over 120. I adjusted my drving to compensate. 3 hours into the trip I stopeed to check out the engine comparment only to find that the power steering box which was plugged off, was spewing fluid. I tightened it down and kept going, Got back to Charlotte and was drving out of a parking lot when the upper front a-arm bushing came out. Had this happened at high speed, I can assure you that I would not by typing this. The point is, Is that the faught of the installer. Upon checking not everything on the suspension was tight. I should not have been in such a hurry to leave and shoud have driven the car around the area for a day or two before leaving.

I had an 87 Fiero that I did a 3.4 V6 upgrade in, Oil got low and in a hard turn I damaged a wrist pin. Is that GM's faught. I dont think so, but would you believe that they replaced the motor anyway. Less than 12000 miles later, same problem, and would you believe they replaced that engine and did the install in the fiero both times at the dealership.

Lets use you as an example. You bought a CTS-V, I assume from your name, as you can see from mine, I had nothing to hide, but that is another subject all together, so you bought your car, why don't you take it racing and have something break and see what GM tells you, or in regards to the CTS-V and the oil overheating problem from the factory. Which I might say, you drove it off the lot with the possibility of the problem. Why didn't you have GM fix the problem before it left the dealer, or GM have the problem fixed before it left the factory. GM also had a problem from the factory with the 2003 Envoy and 2004 Envoy XUV with the drive by wire system breaking after 200 miles. I owned both cars, and had the problem twice. Why didnt GM fix that problem before it left the factory.

All this boils down to is he was in too much of a hurry to have them check it out, had a problem at the end of the road and was in too much of a hurry to take it back, and then went racing, and wasn't paying attention.

Maybe that will give you something to think about.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

One other thing, None of the other shops in the country, test drive the cars until they get completely through the PCM learning cycle. I called and asked. They expect you to do that.

Hope that helps clear this up.

Vettin Man

Bryan,

You jumped all over me about making an earlier post when supposedly I didn't know all the facts.....so you certainly should not make a post like the quote above when there is NO way that you have any idea why the person in question decided to drive the car away from the shop and any of the rest of the situation. If I'm not allowed to comment on things that I have not witnessed first hand then maybe you should be silent as well.

427PWR

FOR SALE.... complete ( C5R block) LS6 427 built at More Performance, 725 HP NA as seen on their web site and in GMHTP magazine. All specs can be seen there. This motor has no track or street time and has only dyno time. $22,000.

Mike Alpert
MIC5EY@aol.com

gmgearhead

Why are you selling it?

gmgearhead

oh..here's my .2$...you can tell a customer what he needs to have for his application.Most customers feel that they are smarter than you and decline alot of additional components,thinking that its just an upsale.You can't control them and you can't control performance parts.You can control on how things are built and i believe that MP does everything in their power to do just that.Otherwise if they didn't i don't feel that GM Hightech Mag. would publish articles on them.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

I believe I am going to stand behind my claim. If your friend with the problem wants to dispute it, the he is more than welcome. It doesn't change anything.

Problem 1:
Car was freshly tuned, he left the parking lot, he got to the end of the street, the car cut off. At that point, he had two options, go straight, do a u turn. We both know what he did. That was the contention of the whole argument. He was in a hurry and didn't want to wait another day for his car.

Problem 2:
Your Friend takes car to track, belt jumps off, (THAT RIGHT THERE WAS A SIGN AND HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED), but Noooooooo, he had to keep going, and he wasn't watching the oil pressure gauge. Because if he was, then he would have stopped the car when it got low. Remember this is the point of having gauges in the car.

Say anything you like, it doesn't change any of these facts. More Performance could have been the worst engine builder on the planet or Walmart could have built the engine, it still doesn't change anything. You friend was given signs, he was in just too much of a hurry.

We could argure about this forever, I am not going to stop defending More Performance, because I do not believe they have done anything wrong, and I am not going to stand by and let you trash them because your friend wasn't paying attention.

Just for your information.
If the engine was built, then the engine was put on a engine dyno, WHICH IT WAS, just like mine and every other engine that they build. Then it was put on a chassis dyno. If a rod was going to break because of poor installation, it would have happened much sooner. An engine dyno and chassis dyno put a tremendous amount of stress on an engine and its drivetrain.

All cars have to go through a learning cycle with the PCM. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM AFTER THE PCM HAS BEEN UNPLUGGED. I am curious, how long was it from the time that your friend left the shop that day, and the time he took it to the track. Hmmmmmmm.

You need to drop this and let it go. You 've made your peace, and made your complaint, even though you have NEVER BEEN A CUSTOMER OF MP.

There is a history here that you are not aware of. The owner used to build race engine for the busch series and is highly respected in that arena. He left that to do this. He assembles all of the engines and is extremely competent. Qualtity does not come cheap, and I have never said that MP was the best priced in town or in the country for that matter. Your friend did not come into the shop and say "please put a high performance motor in my car that fits", he said "I want the fastest N/A car, whatever it takes", I got the whole story.

Anytime that you do anything in which the motor is replaced or upgraded. There are several steps that need to take place.

1.Physical Inspection, this should be done, by the shop with the driver present, going over every aspect.
2.Starting car, checking for leaks with customer present
3.Short drives, and upon returning, another physical inspection.
4.Drive it home, if home is a long way away, then the trip should be splint into, spot checking, at the hotel.
5.Hooking up some sort of software logging, like EFILive, to make sure all sensors are working properly,
6.Idle checkup, start car, drive around in traffic for 30 minutes or so, then bring home and let sit idle for 10-20 mintues, to make sure no overheating or oil pressure problems.
7. Continue diving short routes until PCM cycles are complete.

I did all of this and found the oil pressure problem, switched the oil, and added the oil cooler, problem resolved.
These things should be done by the customer. A shop will do a short version of these as MP did, but no this extensive. This list was devised by myself, because I did not want to depend on anyone but myself, and guess what, I paid over $30,000 for my engine. I am not stupid, and do believe exactly what the idiot gauges say in my car, they are very accurate in my car and I watch them very carefully. The shops have responsibility to the customers, but not when the customer is negligent.

You need to drop this, and find something else better to do.
I am very sorry your friend, had a problem with his car, but it is not the faught of More Performance.

Vettin Man

Believe me I have. As a matter of fact I hadn't even looked at this thread in two weeks but thought I'd check back in to see what you were still bickering with everyone about. I've got plenty to do so that's certainly not a problem. As far as the engine goes, I wonder whose "faught" it is that it wasn't built right. Oh well, you make me ROTFLMAO!! Good luck in life!

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

I am still lost here, please enlighten me and everyone else that you are so insistent upon sharing your view with how the engine wasn't built right. It doesn't matter who built the engine, the moment the oil pressure went low, anyone's engine would have failed under those conditions and how the engine was built has nothing to do with the tuning. The way the engine was built also had nothing to do with the way the belt came off, there is a known problem with a resonance built up at 4200 RPM. By the way, I saw the cracked block that was a 427 Re-sleeve from MTI. I guess you can add them to your hate list.
This would work out so much better for you if you had the problem. I guess I can add you to the list of clueless people on the fourm, thanks for the help. I was begining to wonder where all of you went, and now I know.

Geno

I appreciate your inputs!

Vettin man:
The fact that you were willing to give your opinion (which is appreciated), is good for us all because it gives us forum members a chance to make an educated decision on whether to deal with a particular vender. I rather see all sides of an argument and have good judgment based on that vision, than to be blind and have poor. Thanks.
P.S. I like your WEB site. I recently sold my Z06 and bought a Lemans Blue Commemorative LS1 C5 for my wife (wish I could of kept both).

Bryan Wilkinson:
I can tell you are very confident in Mike’s abilities and that probably mirrors my take. A couple of things I look for.
1) Is the service provider high pressure (wearing a plaid coat and polyester pants would not be a good sign either)?
2) Is the shop in good order (especially when showing up in short notice)?
3) Are the employees professional in dress and attitude?
4) Has the business been around for a couple of years?

Except for the first, I can say yes to these questions as they relate to MorePerformance.

On the lighter side I saw your car on the lift when I visited and was thinking, “how do I get one of those monsters under my hood”. It was very impressive, it has to be one of the most powerful street TA’s this side of the equator. Kick A’

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Geno,

Thank you very much for you open mindedness and your comments on my car. The car still scares me a little. Vettein Man like any one else is entitled to their opinion and it is opinions that help generate discussions. As you can see from our somewhat heated discussions, he really feels that his friend was taken advantage of and I can truly understand his friends frustrations because I have been there, the very first time I did an engine upgrade. I bought a GM crate motor and had someone install it, it took them a year, shortly after leaving the shop the ac compressor blew up, when I got back the alternator went out, shortly after that, the 2nd gear syncromesh went out, and just like vettinman's friend, when I tried to drive it when it was cold, it would cut off, because the computer had not been through the learning cycle at that point, and I didn't know why. I wanted to blame the mechanic for everything wrong on my car. But the one thing that I could not blame the mechanic for was when I was going into a sharp curve the oil pressure went down and I messed up a wrist pin.

In all of my discussions in this thread, The only thing that we have never covered, was the real question of the breaking of this rod.
What a lot of people do not understand about normally asperiated motors vs blown motors, Rods in a normally asperated motor are under much more stress than in a blown motor because the blown motor makes its power via compressed air, not stroke. In a N/A motor, the beam of the rods are put under more stress because the are being pulled by the crank. In a blown application, the compresses air is pushing down on the piston transferring the stress to the beam of the rod.

In my opinion there is absolutely nothing More Performance could have done in the way that the motor was built to cause that rod to fail, other than not putting rod bolts in it. I am sorry for being so blunt so many times with him, but the number of engines that Mike and his team have built without problems and complication far far exceeds the one that I have heard about here. Mike was kind enough to install two pistons while I stook and took photos on my engine. In the 6 months while I was researching learned enough that I knew what had to be done to build a motor. Mike at More Performnace is an exceptional engine builder. If I had the money to enter a engine into the Hot Rod Engine Masters Challenge Program, and I was allowed to design the motor, I can promise you Mike at More Performance would be building it.

The customer in question that VettinMan continues to support is upset that he spent money on something that broke, but is not willing to take responsibility for his own actions which started all of this.

The only thing that I want to add which seperates MP from other Cookie Cutter Shops, like Lingenfelters, is they do not offer a cookie cutter engine build, and in my opinion this is a good thing, because no motor is exactly alike. Even from the factory. So they do not have mass quantities of parts made and waiting on the shelf for people to order engines. Each engine part is assigned a serial numer and electronically engraved on the part, every bolt, every rod, every piece, before they are balanced. This level of detail is insane. The car that you saw on the lift, was delieved to them in Oct of last year, the time frame had about 3 months added to it because of changes and delays on parts that I had ordered for other parts of the car. If they pick all the parts, this process is much quicker.

Thank you for being responsible and doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions, and not taking the advice of people with unjustified prejudice.

If you are ever going to be in charlotte, let me know and I will take you for a ride in the beast.

Good Luck
Bryan

ls1 joe

iTrader: (37)

what's up dude how is that pro-m maf treating ya. Hope the hot rod is still operating well.

Geno

Thanks Bryan, that's very kind of you. I guess the next time I'll be down is for the engine build/install. I hope I get a chance to meet you then.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Let me know when you will be here and consider it done.

Black 98 T/A

iTrader: (3)

why did joe leave MP?