Dyno And Tuning This Friday...
08-02-2008, 10:53 AM
#41
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
let me say 1st that if mr 2c5s was smart, this is the reason i waited to let him burry himself. but i cant stand the pain any longer. wtf is he tallking about?
That AFR of 14.1 is the max (meaning leanest) AF which is the AFR at 2500 rpms before full throttle, the AFR that is important is the "average AFR" which is just that, the average AFR during the pull which which was 11.9. the AFR on the Dyno screen was registering about 1/2 point richer (which is a lower number) than the actual Wide-Band. (Wide-Band is an Innovate LM-1.) So the actual AFR at the very start of the pull was 14.6 and the average during the pull was 12.4 AFR. That is actually slightly rich, not lean. Now the good ****,Look at the dyno sheet CLOSELY, there is only ONE dyno pull shown. The three sets of numbers are the minimum (to the left), highest (middle), and average (to the right), all the numbers are from the SAME PULL, he's reading the sheet wrong! He thinks there are 3 seperate pulls on the sheet and that the middle one was the highest with an AFR of 14.1. That is not how to read the sheet.please, point this out to him. how do u like me now sizzletits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F50vWFKcQc
That AFR of 14.1 is the max (meaning leanest) AF which is the AFR at 2500 rpms before full throttle, the AFR that is important is the "average AFR" which is just that, the average AFR during the pull which which was 11.9. the AFR on the Dyno screen was registering about 1/2 point richer (which is a lower number) than the actual Wide-Band. (Wide-Band is an Innovate LM-1.) So the actual AFR at the very start of the pull was 14.6 and the average during the pull was 12.4 AFR. That is actually slightly rich, not lean. Now the good ****,Look at the dyno sheet CLOSELY, there is only ONE dyno pull shown. The three sets of numbers are the minimum (to the left), highest (middle), and average (to the right), all the numbers are from the SAME PULL, he's reading the sheet wrong! He thinks there are 3 seperate pulls on the sheet and that the middle one was the highest with an AFR of 14.1. That is not how to read the sheet.please, point this out to him. how do u like me now sizzletits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F50vWFKcQc
Last edited by OHSIXCTSV; 08-02-2008 at 04:11 PM.
08-02-2008, 04:36 PM
#43
TECH Fanatic
During WOT conditions, regardless of RPM, you don't want to be much leaner than about 12:1 or, worst case, 12.5:1. This is richer than the chemically correct A/F ratio (stoichiometric) of about 14.7:1. If you're running anything above, say 13:1 or 13.5:1, the temperatures get hotter and you run a greater risk of detonation. Of course, with a knock sensor present, timing gets pulled by the PCM which protects the motor, but also lowers the power produced. The richer mixtures of ~12:1 and lower A/F act to quench the cylinder and keep it a bit cooler and better resist detonation.
I'm far from an expert from a practical standpoint, so I don't know how a tuner actually sets things up in the presence of a knock-sensor-equipped motor. I'm old school.
Maybe the knock sensor can only pull a very few degrees so the tuner has to put the PCM in the right range to begin with ... I don't know.
I'm far from an expert from a practical standpoint, so I don't know how a tuner actually sets things up in the presence of a knock-sensor-equipped motor. I'm old school.
Maybe the knock sensor can only pull a very few degrees so the tuner has to put the PCM in the right range to begin with ... I don't know. 
08-02-2008, 04:47 PM
#45
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The vcm suite 2.1 software he uses to the fullest. it's almost creepy the way he knows how to manipulate every, and i mean EVERY aspect of his softwear. imho, he's like the tiger woods of tuning, it's like it's an inate ability, not tought. scary to say least,...
and he's as down to earth & humble as they come. bad news travles fast, and good news is kept a secret as people covet thier connections.
and he's as down to earth & humble as they come. bad news travles fast, and good news is kept a secret as people covet thier connections.
08-02-2008, 05:11 PM
#46
10 Second Club
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Murrieta Ca.
Posts: 1,676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
let me say 1st that if mr 2c5s was smart, this is the reason i waited to let him burry himself. but i cant stand the pain any longer. wtf is he tallking about?
That AFR of 14.1 is the max (meaning leanest) AF which is the AFR at 2500 rpms before full throttle, the AFR that is important is the "average AFR" which is just that, the average AFR during the pull which which was 11.9. the AFR on the Dyno screen was registering about 1/2 point richer (which is a lower number) than the actual Wide-Band. (Wide-Band is an Innovate LM-1.) So the actual AFR at the very start of the pull was 14.6 and the average during the pull was 12.4 AFR. That is actually slightly rich, not lean. Now the good ****,Look at the dyno sheet CLOSELY, there is only ONE dyno pull shown. The three sets of numbers are the minimum (to the left), highest (middle), and average (to the right), all the numbers are from the SAME PULL, he's reading the sheet wrong! He thinks there are 3 seperate pulls on the sheet and that the middle one was the highest with an AFR of 14.1. That is not how to read the sheet.please, point this out to him. how do u like me now sizzletits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F50vWFKcQc
That AFR of 14.1 is the max (meaning leanest) AF which is the AFR at 2500 rpms before full throttle, the AFR that is important is the "average AFR" which is just that, the average AFR during the pull which which was 11.9. the AFR on the Dyno screen was registering about 1/2 point richer (which is a lower number) than the actual Wide-Band. (Wide-Band is an Innovate LM-1.) So the actual AFR at the very start of the pull was 14.6 and the average during the pull was 12.4 AFR. That is actually slightly rich, not lean. Now the good ****,Look at the dyno sheet CLOSELY, there is only ONE dyno pull shown. The three sets of numbers are the minimum (to the left), highest (middle), and average (to the right), all the numbers are from the SAME PULL, he's reading the sheet wrong! He thinks there are 3 seperate pulls on the sheet and that the middle one was the highest with an AFR of 14.1. That is not how to read the sheet.please, point this out to him. how do u like me now sizzletits?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F50vWFKcQc
A simple thank you would be fine. I'm sure my question's did'nt prompt you to call your tuner and ask for an explanation on the A/F.
Any idea what your A/F was at WOT towards the top? Not the avg., the actual A/F?
You posted a graph that makes no sense with it's HP vs. Tq readings. You said the car was lean as hell and detonating stock with the stock tune, unable to perform a full baseline run. That goes against everything the factory does to the tune. The only reason for it to knock and be lean from the factory is if you ran crap gas or had a mechanical problem. When you say it took a tuner 6 hours to tune a stock car and then post a bizaro dyno graph without the A/F ratio's plotted with the HP/Tq curves, well, I posted concern's on the safety of your tune. If you're comfortable with the job they did, great. It's great news that you have a complete handle on what your doing with your car and yes, I have no clue when it comes to these cars.
BTW, here's a typical Dynojet graph showing HP/Tq and A/F. It kind of takes the guessing out of what your looking at.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...530&highlight=
Last edited by 2c5s; 08-02-2008 at 05:19 PM.
08-02-2008, 05:25 PM
#47
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe if you try talking (typing) to people and not at them u might get
a better responce...in a wierd way u may have had a actual concern for
the tuners ability, and were trying to look out for me, or just trying to bully your way
into a thread with maliciouse intent, who knows?...but the way you went about it was uncalled for. who wants to be bashed for a job well done? i know i don't...are'nt we here for the same reason?...the sport of cars and all that implys?, nothing makes a forum
less enjoyable than to always need to explain urself. i'm a grown man who pays my own bills. not some silly kid with trust fund money,... then i could see the reason for a smack down. ask any1 here, i'll rip it till there is nothing left but a headache. (ask tony orlando)
lol kidding! past history. anyway,...it's nice to see u can be civil. lets leave it at that.
to answer your AF question it's a thing of beauty aT WOT.
straight as a donkeys dik accross the board to redline 12.4
there was slight knock at partial throttle around 2,800-3,200
but it's been corrected with another street scan 2day. so maybe i
do owe you for making sure the tune was sound. and now it's dead on ***** accurate from start to finish. (idol to redline) =]
a better responce...in a wierd way u may have had a actual concern for
the tuners ability, and were trying to look out for me, or just trying to bully your way
into a thread with maliciouse intent, who knows?...but the way you went about it was uncalled for. who wants to be bashed for a job well done? i know i don't...are'nt we here for the same reason?...the sport of cars and all that implys?, nothing makes a forum
less enjoyable than to always need to explain urself. i'm a grown man who pays my own bills. not some silly kid with trust fund money,... then i could see the reason for a smack down. ask any1 here, i'll rip it till there is nothing left but a headache. (ask tony orlando)
lol kidding! past history. anyway,...it's nice to see u can be civil. lets leave it at that.
to answer your AF question it's a thing of beauty aT WOT.
straight as a donkeys dik accross the board to redline 12.4
there was slight knock at partial throttle around 2,800-3,200
but it's been corrected with another street scan 2day. so maybe i
do owe you for making sure the tune was sound. and now it's dead on ***** accurate from start to finish. (idol to redline) =]
Last edited by OHSIXCTSV; 08-02-2008 at 05:37 PM.
08-02-2008, 05:45 PM
#48
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
08-02-2008, 06:15 PM
#49
10 Second Club
iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Murrieta Ca.
Posts: 1,676
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe if you try talking (typing) to people and not at them u might get
a better responce...in a wierd way u may have had a actual concern for
the tuners ability, and were trying to look out for me, or just trying to bully your way
into a thread with maliciouse intent, who knows?...but the way you went about it was uncalled for. who wants to be bashed for a job well done? i know i don't...are'nt we here for the same reason?...the sport of cars and all that implys?, nothing makes a forum
less enjoyable than to always need to explain urself. i'm a grown man who pays my own bills. not some silly kid with trust fund money,... then i could see the reason for a smack down. ask any1 here, i'll rip it till there is nothing left but a headache. (ask tony orlando)
lol kidding! past history. anyway,...it's nice to see u can be civil. lets leave it at that.
to answer your AF question it's a thing of beauty aT WOT.
straight as a donkeys dik accross the board to redline 12.4
there was slight knock at partial throttle around 2,800-3,200
but it's been corrected with another street scan 2day. so maybe i
do owe you for making sure the tune was sound. and now it's dead on ***** accurate from start to finish. (idol to redline) =]
a better responce...in a wierd way u may have had a actual concern for
the tuners ability, and were trying to look out for me, or just trying to bully your way
into a thread with maliciouse intent, who knows?...but the way you went about it was uncalled for. who wants to be bashed for a job well done? i know i don't...are'nt we here for the same reason?...the sport of cars and all that implys?, nothing makes a forum
less enjoyable than to always need to explain urself. i'm a grown man who pays my own bills. not some silly kid with trust fund money,... then i could see the reason for a smack down. ask any1 here, i'll rip it till there is nothing left but a headache. (ask tony orlando)
lol kidding! past history. anyway,...it's nice to see u can be civil. lets leave it at that.
to answer your AF question it's a thing of beauty aT WOT.
straight as a donkeys dik accross the board to redline 12.4
there was slight knock at partial throttle around 2,800-3,200
but it's been corrected with another street scan 2day. so maybe i
do owe you for making sure the tune was sound. and now it's dead on ***** accurate from start to finish. (idol to redline) =]
08-02-2008, 08:25 PM
#50
TECH Fanatic
Somewhere in there is where best power is. 12:1 is a bit on the rich side, actually. (That's where mine is at peak hp with the maggie where the tuner preferred it to be "safe.")On another issue, looks like things have calmed down a bit around here.
08-03-2008, 11:27 AM
#52
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hey rand just a random here but it is conducive to the issue of hp.
your numbers stretch as deep as mine on the hp tq side...so how
can you question such numbers? you don't have meth injection,
so basically your "tuner" was able to extract those numbers given
your car has only bolt on upgrades as well ie:headers and hi flows
( - the maggie ) which at 8 lbs. of boost is only netting you @ 12 rwhp
per lbs of boost = 96rwhp. take away your blower and u sit in the hot seat too.
no?
for your total mods you should only be around 450 tops on the hp side, and ur tq is acctually alittle low...maybe the same bunch built our motors.
your numbers stretch as deep as mine on the hp tq side...so how
can you question such numbers? you don't have meth injection,
so basically your "tuner" was able to extract those numbers given
your car has only bolt on upgrades as well ie:headers and hi flows
( - the maggie ) which at 8 lbs. of boost is only netting you @ 12 rwhp
per lbs of boost = 96rwhp. take away your blower and u sit in the hot seat too.
no?
for your total mods you should only be around 450 tops on the hp side, and ur tq is acctually alittle low...maybe the same bunch built our motors.
Last edited by OHSIXCTSV; 08-03-2008 at 11:33 AM.
08-03-2008, 02:28 PM
#53
dude your tuner is messing with the dyno. You cannot get 374 out of a cts-v ls2 with exhaust and intake....SORRY to burst your bubble.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
08-03-2008, 02:44 PM
#54
dude your tuner is messing with the dyno. You cannot get 374 out of a cts-v ls2 with exhaust and intake....SORRY to burst your bubble.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
08-03-2008, 02:44 PM
#55
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 849
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dude your tuner is messing with the dyno. You cannot get 374 out of a cts-v ls2 with exhaust and intake....SORRY to burst your bubble.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
Where do you live ohsix? If your close, Ill come by, give you the beat down, then youll know you dont have 374. DEAL?
And Im supposedly making signifcantly less power than you.
Maybe those racing pedals add more hp than I thought.
ur car is junk, ur jealousy is obvious, and ur anger
is justifyed cuz "your tuner" cant get 374 out of ur car . next
08-03-2008, 03:19 PM
#56
....my car is junk? Your in a forum devoted to this junky car, and you own this junky car.
.....I dont have a cakehole, I have an *******. And yes you are one.
do you think before you speak/write?
My anger? is nonexistent. Im just glad my tuner didnt have to lie to me about the gains he can get. But I guess you get a nice 2 inch ***** extension to your 1 inch.....wow i think that makes 3 inches total....you are on your way!!!!!
.....I dont have a cakehole, I have an *******. And yes you are one.
do you think before you speak/write?
My anger? is nonexistent. Im just glad my tuner didnt have to lie to me about the gains he can get. But I guess you get a nice 2 inch ***** extension to your 1 inch.....wow i think that makes 3 inches total....you are on your way!!!!!
08-03-2008, 03:21 PM
#58
Oh and for the record, my tuner is well known, yours not so much. Your dyno graph is fabricated and your upset....would you like some jujubees to make you feel all better inside?
08-03-2008, 03:54 PM
#60
didnt watch the vid, but now that I did......
I forgot the vents add power too, I retract all my statements, as I didnt realize he has both pedals and vents. Those easily make up for the added hp. Vents = 12rwhp minimum. and the pedals....who knows??? Damn thats a sweet car, wish I could trade mine for that 06 cts-v Vent and Pedal Edition
I forgot the vents add power too, I retract all my statements, as I didnt realize he has both pedals and vents. Those easily make up for the added hp. Vents = 12rwhp minimum. and the pedals....who knows??? Damn thats a sweet car, wish I could trade mine for that 06 cts-v Vent and Pedal Edition