DMM

I am trying to get everything in line and decide on a fuel system. At the moment, I have a DW 300 pump and Ractronix Hotwire kit on the way, which I believe will likely support over 550 whp.

I wanted to get an idea of what everyone is running, how easy or difficult they were to install, what power level they're at, and most importantly...if they would have done things differently if they had a choice.

Also, has anyone ever gone the route of installing dual fuel module's in our tanks? I have seen a few threads where the viability has come into question, but nothing concrete.

I'll throw this out there last, I stopped by my old dealership today and had a chance to sit down and go through the GM Dealer World diagrams and schematics and compare the V1 and V2 fuel systems, which are surprisingly similar...so much so that it may be a drop in solution. I'm not sure about the float compatibility etc, however.

There is an aftermarket power system that uses a GM fuel pressure sensor and regulates fuel pressure by means of PWM of the pumps. I don't know the cost, but this would be ideal for any dual pump setup to include trying to fit the V2 fuel module in a V1. Here is the site:

http://vaporworx.com/

Click on the "Fuel System Control" on the left hand side. The G8 guys have been using this system and there have been no complaints or failures that I have found.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to share!

Skidmarcx

I like this idea... I wonder if the V2 pump would physically fit

DMM

Yes, the module is the same size at the opening. From the service manual pics that I was looking at yesterday, the two tanks are indistinguishable with the exception that the V2 tanks is molded slightly different on the bottom b/c of the redesigned rear sub-frame.

Also, if this is truly the case, any 2010+ Camaro and G8 system will work in our application as well since everyone is using the CTS-V pump modules as well.

I have not had a V1 or V2 tank on the ground to look at it myself, but as I said, they look identical from GM's info.

DMM

I find it hard to believe that everyone has a stock fuel setup.

98cobra

iTrader: (32)

I am Pretty sure a g8 bucket is not fitting in the tank. If you modified the return regulator 340 pump would work fine.

VeryWhiteDevil

iTrader: (9)

I am running the Kyosan 1020 285/lph, Hotwire kit, dual feeding into Nasty fuel rails w/ 42lb greentops.

I have had the tank down. I have modified the current bucket to accept the larger pump. the other side of the tank appears to have an exact style setup, that would accept another fuel pump bucket. My question is, there is a crossover in the tank, so if you attach to both pumps, will it affect anything?? so, you would need to tie the two pumps together, topside, outside the tank with some type of fuel block and try and either figure out the in tank regulators (leave them alone) and keep the returnless setup?? it would be nice if someone would make a drop in setup, but that is not going to happen for the V1. I would love to give it a try, but would suck to drop the tank again, hook it all up just to figure out it does not work and put everything back the way it was. seems like it would work though, even with leaving the intake regulators in as returnless. maybe one pump/side feeds one rail and one pump/side feeds the other rail?? leaving everything working as a mirror of the original setup.

DMM

First, thanks for contributing! I have thought the same thing as well...running another 3/8" line up front and having a separate line for each fuel rail would likely solve just about every fuel related concern anyone could ever have, even with the stock 190 lph pumps installed.

The purpose of the crossover line going to the opposite side of the tank and connecting to the hanger is to draw fuel from the other side of the tank while cornering, and could be retained even if a second module was installed. The V2 is exactly like this as well. The difference would be in the return.

I found a pic of the V2 fuel system online as well, but the V2 would require a creative return (since there is not one equipped) or get the PWM kit that I spec'd in the first post.

And with that....the pain killers are taking effect again......

s-cam

I have ran a few variations
first one was stock with BAP, then the Kyosan 1020 285/lph, Hotwire kit.
I was short fuel supply so i addied an inline wailbro 255 but was unhappy as i could not control the pressure. I then removed the regulator in the tank, ran -8 line for feed and -6 for return with an aeromotive rising rate regulator with an inline bosch 044 and the kyosan in the tank with dual BAP's. Still no dice !!! So in the end i went with the kyosan in the tank ( no BAP) feeding a surge tank that mounted behind my passenger rear wheel and then dual bosch 044 pumps feeding the motor. that set up is currently working to fuel 750 RWHP. I would have sent the tank to Lonnies for the dual pump upgrade but the freight and shipping out of Canada was the only thing that held me back from that option. In the end it probably would have been the cheapest option even thou it did not seem that way at the time......

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

i have a walbro 255lph, stock ls2 fuel rail, and siemens deka 60 lb injectors in a stock ls2 fuel rail, on a fast intake.

500 rwhp and i'm good still.

FuzzyLog1c

iTrader: (4)

I think the reason why you're fine and people with forced induction run into trouble fast is the massive surge in power. Despite the tiny size of these fuel pumps, I don't think they can overcome their own inertia quick enough to keep up with a blower. Which is why a surge tank is the right idea when you exceed 600 RWHP on boost.

For example, with NA (in this case, a random stock LS2 CTS-V), the dyno curve is nice and smooth and predictable:



When you throw a supercharger on a LS2 CTS-V, look what happens at 2750 RPM:

RADEoN

iTrader: (12)

That makes sense.

Frostbite

iTrader: (14)

What is the purpose of the "bucket" on the opposite side of the pump bucket? Is it a fuel level sending unit? I like the idea of having a pump on both sides, tied in with a "y" fitting to a -8 line to the front, and using an external regualator.

Also, does anyone have any good pics of their surge tank setups?

soulja

iTrader: (3)

Why does the bottom graph say 09 CTS-V if it's from an LS2 CTS-V?

etcts-v

Is a walbro just an add in to the line working in tandem with the stock pump or do they replace the stock pump?

Skidmarcx

In theory how hard would it be to tune a PWM system with an e85 Walbro and return less?

DMM

It has been done both ways, however it doesn't make much sense to have a "booster" pump of a much higher capacity downstream of a smaller pump. Also, in our system...if this is done after or in place of the fuel filter, you cannot control the fuel pressure. If the Walboro simply replaces the OE pump in the fuel module, it will operate just as stock with higher output.

Our fuel system is pretty odd in that the second line on the fuel tank side of the filter is the return straight back to the tank, and the regulator is at the very end of the return line in the fuel bucket. This way, everything behind the regulator maintains pressure.

Well, here is the thing...the PWM acts as the regulator, and can be more accurate depending on placement of the sensor. Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) is measured in duty cycle (on time). The pump runs until the desired pressure is reached (58 PSI for example) and then turns the pump off...when the system drops to 55 PSI, the pump is commanded on until the desired pressure is again reached then commanded off. The "On Time" is the Duty Cycle.

Modulating this duty cycle is much better for the pump than simply reducing the supplied voltage (which only serves to increase current draw in the absence of correct voltage, inducing additional heat into the motor windings) and will in fact be more efficient (since the fuel pump is not always running) than having a return line with a fuel rail mounted regulator. The fuel is also heated mush less in a returnless system.

Long story short, the actual tuning of the vehicle is the same as it would be otherwise with nothing additional required.

etcts-v

Interesting, thanks for the info!

Skidmarcx

So basically... Purchase a V2 pump assembly (if it indeed fits) or install a bigger single pump in our existing bucket, wire up a PWM controller with MAP and RPM inputs, install a different fuel filter, and it should work... Sounds too easy lol...

DMM

Got a response from VaporWorx:

Damian,

Thanks for your interest in VaporWorx.

I have not tested the controller on a DW300 pump or on a 2004 OE CTS-V pump. Hence, I do not know if they would be compatible. I do not want to sell something that has not been properly validated first.

As far as system capability it can support 18v up to 55A. However, if a dual-module is used testing is needed to confirm compatibility. Adding more pumps to the system changes the operational parameters vs. a single pump.

Depending on fixed vs. variable pressure, wiring and plug needs, etc. the PWM systems typically range from $500-$600.

I hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions.

Carl


So...this system with a V2 module (if it indeed fits) would be around $1k...a little more than I would like to spend. However, if their system is rated for 55 amps @ 18 volts, this would support just about any/everything with a substantial safety margin.

Oh, and you don't have to worry about RPM, MAP, Boost, ect,...all you need is the fuel pressure sensor included with their kit.

Don't know how viable of an option this is, but hey...anything over and above our current options can only help.

Skidmarcx

I think it's a good option... Safe and simple system... Although I'd feel safer with a wide band o2 installed just in case