Can you guys help me design a budget race engine
02-20-2011, 04:28 AM
#1
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Can you guys help me design a budget race engine I finally found the class I'm racing in and now I need to rethink my motor setup for the el camino.
The vehicles I'm competing against will be running 800hp $30k race engines
I will have around 3-4K =) If I can come up with a 600hp combo I think I can get enough attention to snag a sponsorship. this will be a higher revving combo but not trying to get above 7000rpm. Its a 4wd vehicle so it will need decent torque.
I'm throwing the LS1 I have in my T100 right now, so it can be any LS based combo, any intake, any carb. I can build a sheetmetal intake and custom headers taylored to the motor.
Open to all suggestions, if I end up using your combo you can come do some hot laps with me (if you don't puke like everyone else)
The vehicles I'm competing against will be running 800hp $30k race engines
I will have around 3-4K =) If I can come up with a 600hp combo I think I can get enough attention to snag a sponsorship. this will be a higher revving combo but not trying to get above 7000rpm. Its a 4wd vehicle so it will need decent torque.
I'm throwing the LS1 I have in my T100 right now, so it can be any LS based combo, any intake, any carb. I can build a sheetmetal intake and custom headers taylored to the motor.
Open to all suggestions, if I end up using your combo you can come do some hot laps with me (if you don't puke like everyone else)
Last edited by inde-fab; 02-20-2011 at 08:00 AM.
02-20-2011, 06:59 AM
#3
LY6 from the yard(preferebly low mileage)
ARP Rod bolts
Flat mill the heads .030
Custom cam, Patriot Gold Extreme springs/retainers
MSD 6012
If you can build a low rise tunnel ram with a small plenum volume, single carb.
1 7/8 headers, 3 inch collectors
A proper cam will require the pistons be notched for intake valve clearance.
should do the trick...
Dave
ARP Rod bolts
Flat mill the heads .030
Custom cam, Patriot Gold Extreme springs/retainers
MSD 6012
If you can build a low rise tunnel ram with a small plenum volume, single carb.
1 7/8 headers, 3 inch collectors
A proper cam will require the pistons be notched for intake valve clearance.
should do the trick...
Dave
02-20-2011, 07:56 AM
#4
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Naturally aspirated. no other restrictions.
mizell any ballpark specs on the cam u had in mind? Good ideas- sounds like a do-able combo.
stock pistons/rods and pushrods/lifters?
what cfm carb would be ideal with that tunnel-ram?
is the LY6 an iron block LS6? need to be schooled on the quick. Thanks guys
mizell any ballpark specs on the cam u had in mind? Good ideas- sounds like a do-able combo.
stock pistons/rods and pushrods/lifters?
what cfm carb would be ideal with that tunnel-ram?
is the LY6 an iron block LS6? need to be schooled on the quick. Thanks guys
02-20-2011, 09:26 AM
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Naturally aspirated. no other restrictions.
mizell any ballpark specs on the cam u had in mind? Good ideas- sounds like a do-able combo.
stock pistons/rods and pushrods/lifters?
what cfm carb would be ideal with that tunnel-ram?
is the LY6 an iron block LS6? need to be schooled on the quick. Thanks guys
mizell any ballpark specs on the cam u had in mind? Good ideas- sounds like a do-able combo.
stock pistons/rods and pushrods/lifters?
what cfm carb would be ideal with that tunnel-ram?
is the LY6 an iron block LS6? need to be schooled on the quick. Thanks guys
whats the fuel to be used
Last edited by Z284thgen; 02-20-2011 at 09:31 AM.
02-20-2011, 10:05 AM
#6
If was me
4.065 over lq4 or ly6 6.0 block
Stock crank
Stock floating wrist pin rods
Replacement ls3 pistons
Deck engine and machine block for appropriate clearances and assembly. I prefer .015 TDC out the bore
Ls3 are flat top pistons, I can cut in my own valve relieves and manipulate the scr, PTV clearance,
and with gm 4.1 bore .051 compressed thickness gaskets, will net .036 quench, very favorable for n/a performance.that's the shortblock
4.065 over lq4 or ly6 6.0 block
Stock crank
Stock floating wrist pin rods
Replacement ls3 pistons
Deck engine and machine block for appropriate clearances and assembly. I prefer .015 TDC out the bore
Ls3 are flat top pistons, I can cut in my own valve relieves and manipulate the scr, PTV clearance,
and with gm 4.1 bore .051 compressed thickness gaskets, will net .036 quench, very favorable for n/a performance.that's the shortblock
02-20-2011, 10:13 AM
#7
Heads:
Most likely use TSP 243 heads milled to yield around 11.5-11.75:1 scr with above shortblock
Custom grind cam around above heads. Jesel ss rockers or Harland sharp. Correct installed and pressure valve springs and pushrods for cam used. Need figure final pushrod length after cam installed and degree. With rockers used
Super victor intake manifold with best carb I can afford
Most likely use TSP 243 heads milled to yield around 11.5-11.75:1 scr with above shortblock
Custom grind cam around above heads. Jesel ss rockers or Harland sharp. Correct installed and pressure valve springs and pushrods for cam used. Need figure final pushrod length after cam installed and degree. With rockers used
Super victor intake manifold with best carb I can afford
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02-20-2011, 11:46 AM
#8
My recomendtion was based on the budget.
The LY6 is a 6.0 LQ4 shortblock with L92 rectangle port heads.
Thes engines can be had complete for about $1400. if you are installing in a truck, you should be all set with water pump and accy drive and oil pan.
You do not have to purchase heads or pistons/rods for this combo.
Install the spring /retainer setup reuse lifter and rockers. install some good .080 pushrods.
Shoot for 238ish at .050 on the intake with a 110LSA ICL of 106 and 8 degree split on the exhaust.
This setup did 9.80's at 137 in a 2900 lb car and is still cranking out 9's today in a "57 Corvette.
Peak power is 6800-7000....will last a long time..
Some friends have nicknamed it the "forever' engine, or at least until you want something different..
Oh and it will run fine on pump gas at 9.8/1 compression.
Dave
The LY6 is a 6.0 LQ4 shortblock with L92 rectangle port heads.
Thes engines can be had complete for about $1400. if you are installing in a truck, you should be all set with water pump and accy drive and oil pan.
You do not have to purchase heads or pistons/rods for this combo.
Install the spring /retainer setup reuse lifter and rockers. install some good .080 pushrods.
Shoot for 238ish at .050 on the intake with a 110LSA ICL of 106 and 8 degree split on the exhaust.
This setup did 9.80's at 137 in a 2900 lb car and is still cranking out 9's today in a "57 Corvette.
Peak power is 6800-7000....will last a long time..
Some friends have nicknamed it the "forever' engine, or at least until you want something different..
Oh and it will run fine on pump gas at 9.8/1 compression.
Dave
02-22-2011, 12:23 AM
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dammm. thats bad-a. you guys know your ****. UNfortunately I don't have a shop set up building engines, or the proper experience. mines a nasty dusty welding/fab shop and I hesitate to build a motor in that environment.
If anyone wants to build a motor I will re you/your shop. pm me what you would want for assembly and flycutting, porting, etc. so I can get an idea of what to budget for that. I would rather support one of you guys than risk blowing my first LS build on national television.
Thanks very much for the help and please continue with ideas. remember - maybe 4k in parts max, but damn 700hp sounds about right!
and I'm looking for realistic/reliable numbers on 93 octane in the dezert and 103 or higher on the short course. The engine will be run for up to 40 mins extremely hard on a short course, and about 80% for up to 18 hours streight in the dezert! so the forever combo is exactly the kind of thing I need.
If anyone wants to build a motor I will re you/your shop. pm me what you would want for assembly and flycutting, porting, etc. so I can get an idea of what to budget for that. I would rather support one of you guys than risk blowing my first LS build on national television.
Thanks very much for the help and please continue with ideas. remember - maybe 4k in parts max, but damn 700hp sounds about right!
and I'm looking for realistic/reliable numbers on 93 octane in the dezert and 103 or higher on the short course. The engine will be run for up to 40 mins extremely hard on a short course, and about 80% for up to 18 hours streight in the dezert! so the forever combo is exactly the kind of thing I need.
Last edited by inde-fab; 02-22-2011 at 12:38 AM.
02-22-2011, 10:43 PM
#14
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whats the most bulletproof short stroke combo then I guess...Its open, it could be a big block but I would prefer less cubes and higher compression. its a balance though as with all things. reliable 600hp and a pretty flat torque curve is all Im really after. (no biggie right 
if I can do that for $3k-ish in parts this will achieve my goal. and I will be able to begin in the next couple months.
I have to be realistic or it wont happen at all like some of my other builds...
I can run any carbed setup so I'm thinkin unless 770cfm is gonna be good enough I might build something for dual 670cfm holley offroad carbs. Otherwise I have to look into custom carbs and I'm trying to build something with mostly off the shelf parts and fabricated products I intend to sell after testing.
if I can do that for $3k-ish in parts this will achieve my goal. and I will be able to begin in the next couple months. I have to be realistic or it wont happen at all like some of my other builds...
I can run any carbed setup so I'm thinkin unless 770cfm is gonna be good enough I might build something for dual 670cfm holley offroad carbs. Otherwise I have to look into custom carbs and I'm trying to build something with mostly off the shelf parts and fabricated products I intend to sell after testing.
02-23-2011, 07:00 AM
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Ya I originally figured this was my best route for the dough. can you guys recommend a couple smaller custom cam guys? Hopefully one of them wants to do some promotion. What would be the other expensive parts associated with this setup. stock pistons/rods with this combo? I know this combo is good TO about 600 but can it do it all day reliably? Id rather have something a little overbuilt and run it at 90%
02-23-2011, 07:37 AM
#17
Ya I originally figured this was my best route for the dough. can you guys recommend a couple smaller custom cam guys? Hopefully one of them wants to do some promotion. What would be the other expensive parts associated with this setup. stock pistons/rods with this combo? I know this combo is good TO about 600 but can it do it all day reliably? Id rather have something a little overbuilt and run it at 90%
The cost of the parts necessary to build a junkyard LY6 to 600HP will exceed your budget before you pay anyone to do the work.
engine $1500(complete LY6)
cam/spring/retainers/pushrods $1000
ignition controller $300
Machine work $400 (mill heads/notch pistons/install springs)
Front cover to convert VVT of the ly6 $100
Rod bolts $80
HV oil pump/Double roller chain $250
gaskets $100
This puts you just under 4 grand assuming you build the headers and intake.
If you can find said engine locally it would save on shipping.
I believe this engine would run at peak power for an extended period provided water temps are under control and an external oil cooler is used to keep oil temps in check.
Dave
02-23-2011, 09:15 AM
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okay, guess u gotta pay to play. 4K is the ceiling for engine parts then. Same HP goals.
Whats my best bet for a carb on this beast?
Hopefully someone will build it for a grand or less. Is that realistic? I mean i'm sure somebody would do it in a garage for that which would be cool, but it would be nice get a relationship started with an established builder out of the gate.
Thanks Mizll for the breakdown. CHEERS!
Whats my best bet for a carb on this beast?
Hopefully someone will build it for a grand or less. Is that realistic? I mean i'm sure somebody would do it in a garage for that which would be cool, but it would be nice get a relationship started with an established builder out of the gate.
Thanks Mizll for the breakdown. CHEERS!
