c4lhozwalte

if you need to see an advantage to carbs over typical efi setups,then all you need to see is the intake temp drop on a wot pass,because of the atomization,the fuel cools the intake charge,as well as the intake itself.f.i. isnt the solution for everyone but is it better?probally,thats why every top fuel dragster on the planet is injected.can a pefectly set up efi system deliver more advantages than a well tuned carb?id be surprised if it didnt.ill use a carb for now because i dont have the knowledge or the funds to make several tunes for the many options i want for my car.

ZTwentyAteU

iTrader: (12)

How often have you heard of a crank sensor going bad? The only way that happens is if it gets hit with internal parts, and thats a whole problem in itself.

As much as carbs are great, theres a reason everything is EFI these days and not carbed

But i'm not a carb hater, and I sure used a lot of em' when I started messing with cars. Have yall messed with the MSD software? I hate the timing table. My vote is stuck on holley or stock PCM. I'm still running the stock PCM in my car and it does great. HP Tuners isnt that complicated, if you can tune a carb and know how engines work, you can tune HP tuners. I cant say the same for the newer PCM's like e38, but I bet most people on here with some help can tune a ls1 pcm.

I've thought about throwing a carb on a ls motor of my own, but a GOOD carb cost more than a whole junkyard 6.0 or 5.3. Off the shelf carbs are great for a stock 350. Its all in what you want to do with it I guess. I bet if I enable lean cruise on my race car I could knock down some silly MPG lol

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

No special Ed, no one called you ignorant, but if you insist.

Have you thought it through or are you not looking into the situation? Many of us are carbed already or not OE gen iii/IV equipped, that means it is cheaper and easier to use the newer motor in older rides with carbed setups. Plain and simple. Otherwise, the gains and draw backs of one or the other do not matter, I get 20+ mpg with my carbed setup, and that is not leaned out for optimal performance, my 2001 silverado gets maybe 11? So guess what, I drive the pitiful, outdated carbed induction 6.0 in my lowly RS is I do not need the truck.

Is there more to be had with efi in that department? Sure, but the cost to upgrade the fuel system, find someone to mod a harness, buy a harness ect, and all that, would have been a huge blow to the budget. I reused my existing carb, and fuel system, so if I am in the wrong for not being EFI I guess I just don't know ****.


Now stop stirring ****, I will not ask again.

c4lhozwalte

damn son!

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, they are called smog laws. The feds practically mandate EFI the way the cold weather start rules are written.

Every time that MPG argument comes out I challenge the person saying it to back it up. Just like jones89rs, at 25+ mpg my 440 HP carb'd Datsun gets the best mileage of my 3 vehicles. Widebands rule.

And if someone can't handle the MSD software, how the hell will they figure out HPTuners?

Damn, kmracer. You had to pick the least knowledgeable guy to start
Fing with. I'm surprised the link to the SV1 didn't come out.

Reading back through this I think jones89rs nailed it. The majority of the carb guys tune their own ****, whereas a large percentage of EFI guys probably pay someone else to do it. When I look at it from that perspective the Holley EFI unit makes sense. If you just want something to drive that is a quick and easy, if not expensive, way to get there.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

special ed? my name is not ed. i feel like you are implying something here, i believe this is classified as harassment. i am simply here to have a friendly debate, and do not like being harassed. i hope i dont need to contact an administrator about this...


my point it rather simple. it is NOT cheaper, only easier, and even then... is it really easier?

if you can find an unmodified 750cfm 4150 with manual secondaries, manual choke, dp for less than 200 bucks you're LUCKY... then you've gotta hope the throttle bushings are good... if not? 50 bucks, but you may as well spend the extra 50 for the billet proform or quick fuel base plate... THEN you're gonna wanna buy a proform main just so you can get the 4 corner idle adjustments and not have to **** with the choke horn, and at the end of the day? you're gonna rebuild it yourself. so now you've got 500 bucks and some time into a carb.

you still need the 275 dollar intake (unless you're a real man and run the super vic like zone, then its a little extra)

the 375 dollar MSD

fuel system? i mean, you've got the big bad H/C/I ls1, you're gonna run some pos holley blue fuel pump and reg? mmmm... NOPE. so figure what, at least 250 bucks on a fuel system?

even buying this **** used, you're gonna be in it at least a grand. oddly, with the EFI stuff the most expensive part is the tuning software or the tune, depending on which route you go.


if you can wire up an electric fuel pump, you can wire up a PCM. its simple, and there is TONS of information on this wonderful thing called the internet. the factory harness is available with the pcm for about 200 bucks.

ls6 intake with injectors, fuel rails and all sensors? 300.

i think its pretty funny that you claim to get 20+mpg on the freeway with 4.30's, a trex cam, a super vic intake, a carb and a t-56? lol... thats a tall tale if i've ever heard one. cute though. 34+ mpg's have been seen with these engines. thats with fuel injection though...


as for the sv1, big deal. we've all heard about it. its a monoblade carb. cool.... its still a carb. a 1200+ dollar carb. which is a total joke. if you're willing to pay 1200 bucks for a controlled fuel leak, i really hope you arent breeding...


IN ALL REALITY. the carburetor has ONE advantage over fuel injection, and that is SIMPLICITY. YET, if you use some intellect and learn about fuel injection, you'll realize it too is very simple. the advantages and cost effectiveness of fuel injection far outweigh the learning curve. you're already on a website SURROUNDED with fuel injection nerds, and all the information you could ever want. just remember... ask and you shal receive.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning-7/

hey look, its even on the same website you're on right now. read and learn. things are only as complicated as you make them.

i think what you ment to say is "the majority of efi guy's tune their **** once, whereas carb guys spend most of their time tuning... and retuning. and tuning some more. and changing plugs."

efi = precision, accurate, predictable, controllable fuel atomization.

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

I wasn't lucky to find my 800cfm DP. I was patient and looked for a deal. Got in as a sweetener on a trade for some other parts (supercharger for a used engine). So it was free to me. Removed the choke horn (stupid easy to do) and rebuilt it in an hour with a $50 rebuild kit. I do admit the only luck was the bushings were perfect. Sure, it's only 2 corner idle and cold starts suck. But I have a couple of hours and $50 into it.

There is that. But, have you priced a FAST intake lately?

$345 new. I bought mine for $220 used from a guy that jump from carb to EFI because he 'couldn't get it to run right'. There are still suckers out there.

Funny. A holley blue is plenty to handle a H/C LS1. I already had a nice Aeromotive setup that was good to 600hp. So I didn't have to change a thing.

For my purposes I would have to be mentally retarded to have gone EFI. For me it was $545 for the intake, carb (rebuilt) and ignition. EFI would have been the cost of the harness, computer, fuel system and intake, fuel rail, injectors (I had a LQ4 as a starting point). The short-comings of a carb also doesn't affect me since my car is not a daily driver, MPG doesn't matter, cold starts also don't matter. But, you wouldn't understand that.

MPG on the types of cars that run carbs DOESN'T MATTER to anyone that decided to run a carb. Most are race cars and weekend cars only. Stop using that argument. No one really cares.

On a side note, I drove my car from my home to Bremerton Raceways (192 mile round trip), 2 hours of stop and go in Seattle on I-5, made two runs and drove home. Burned 9 gallons. 21mpg average.

Actually agree here. SV1 is a very specific carb for a very specific type of racing where $1200 is a drop in the bucket. No one is going to plop that onto a Vic jr or Super Vic.

That may be true, but you are still not listening to the other reasons why carbs aren't going away any time soon. Will I run a carb on the daily driver? Hell no. On my racecar/weekend toy? Well, of course I will. It was a simple choice.

(sorry if I was being a bit rough, just jabbing at you a bit for coming into the carb section and basically saying, "You're doing it wrong!")

1994t/a

I spent a couple hours tuning on mine and havent touched it since.Hell I was running a 750 Edelbrock on it when I first got it running in the nova I had my LS3 in.I didnt do **** to it other than adjust the idle.I ran it for 9 months with it on it before i put the 1000cfm Holley on it.Havent had to change the plugs but once after I was done tuning the Holley.Havent touched it since,plugs look like they been ran in a efi engine if you pull them out and look at them.It actually will have condensation coming out of the exhaust pipes at idle like a efi setup does.

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

my point is simple. these engines were BLESSED from the factory with a WONDERFUL, very tunable, sequential, COP efi system. top of the damn line. there are adaptive fuel saving strategies, OL/CL, SD, 3 and 4 bar MAP, fuel trims, obd II, you can run huge injectors without an aftermarket injector driver, measure torque converter slip, you can do ALMOST anything an aftermarket ECU will do. not only is it easy, its affordable, and it WORKS. to take that and throw it in the garbage seems like blasphemy to me. dont get me wrong, i've used carbs, daily driven em, etc. if this were a SBF, SBC, anything else i'd completely understand the logic. most older efi systems are a pain in the dick. im just not sure any of you guys are aware of the possibilities...

kmracer

iTrader: (1)

also, its seems odd how you NEVER see guys get into the efi market, get used to things, learn it, use it.... and then go back to carbs. no one does that. there's a reason for that.

SSPerformance

iTrader: (76)

1) very easy/cheap to convert to cable driven
2) Deleted with hptuners/efi live
3) Walbaro 255 pumps are cheap
4) SES lights can be shut off with hptuners/efi live
5) Not exaclty true
6) INLINE PUMP
7) cut out whats not used
8)EFI makes more power BECUASE you can pin point what rpm to make a change
9) STOCK ECU is cheap
10) GAY!!!!!!!!!!!

78 l92

iTrader: (2)

i would have went efi if i had started from scratch but already was setup for carb so it was simple

newschool72

iTrader: (12)

I think the carb guys are looking at this thing from a very different perspective (duh! ). Im running efi on my latest project, but im an old school carb guy at heart. The efi faithful need to realize we run carbs because "THATS WHAT WE DO" and do so on LS motors because it would be impractical to build a gen 1 smallblock with exotic 15 deg. heads , alloy block and 6 bolt mains , crank trigger ignition, etc...etc. Why spend 12 grand to build a smallblock with all these features when you can go get one at the junkyard for 2 grand !

tennerv8

iTrader: (7)

I will say this...I think that most of the EFI preachers out there don't physically tune their cars themselves. They have them tuned. What efi guys have actually made "big" power while tuning the engine themselves? Not taking it to a tuner.

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

Pretty much this. Think about a guy running a high power carb setup small block already. Already has the $900 carb, $1000 fuel system, etc. Moving to a GenIII motor and keeping in carbureted is just a natural progression.

Also, ever thought why blow-through turbo/supercharger guys are able to run so much boost without an intercooler compared to EFI? (and by the way, I did this on a SBC with great success and drove it every day)

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

Actually, I would have to say a LOT of the higher power, quicker running guys tune their own junk. Usually get a baseline but the tweaks at the track, while driving around, etc is done on laptops in the car by themselves. I think it's the middle of the road guys with H/C/I only that largely depend on tuners. Many carb guys would fit into the middle of the road category...and almost all of them tune the car themselves. Mostly because you HAVE to. Constantly. But, it's pretty darn simple, even if you spill some gas every now and again changing a jet!

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Damn, that's some funny chit right there. Teliing a moderator that you hope you don't need to contact a moderator. It's not a friendly argument when you start calling people names.

You know you are coming off as rather clueless here. You have people in this thread telling you they have built both EFI and carb'd monsters, and you still say no one does that. There are some very knowledgable people on this site, but you are calling them all ignorant just because they don't agree with you. You might learn a little more if you actually listen more. That is why you got slapped down in the first place.

Oh, and you know one other advantage carbs have over EFI? The pumps draw way less current. That's like free HP right there!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (25)

It is simple, this is the carb section, not efi vs carb debate and I have had great luck with no arguments and this being the best place on tech for me to enjoy, so if anyone(you know who you are) feels like contacting god, or whoever, it will not stop the banhammer, you are infringing upon the enjoyment of this section by many with the trolling that is FORBIDDEN on tech, so I will make this my last warning before vacations are handed out.

Thanks for cooperation,
Ls1tech staff. -Z

NemeSS

iTrader: (127)

I no habla engrish, please no send me banned camp mr zone. Me likey American dobbel pomper on mi lsjuan.