Warning!!! MSD 6012 owners
#1
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I finally got the laptop hooked up to the box in the ol 72 to do some curve tuning. I set a curve that I thought would work well based on how the car acted with the NO 5 chip, downloaded it and fired the car up. I set the gauges on full screen to watch what it was doing and low and behold the timing was showing 43* !! I had it set for 23* at idle. I reved the motor and the timing followed the curve I installed, only 20* higher than I had programed!!! I then zeroed out the map curve and the curve fell right to where I had programed. The kicker is , that I dont have a map sensor on the car!!
The No 5 chip had 20* map advance and the engine does not recognize that there is no map on the car. If the map advance starts at ,say 20*, it will add that advance across the board because it sees no change the the vacuum on the engine.
The whole time I thought I wouldnt be able to run much advance because I had spark knock with the NO6 chip. I was running as much as 46* with the NO6 chip!!!
Just a heads up for the guys out there running the msd on the plug in chips without a laptop to see what the timing is REALLY doing.
I now have a curve in the MSD I think will be a good starting point and am planning a trip to the track this Saturday or next to fine tune the timing.
the curve reads as follows.....100 rpms 20*, 800 rpms 26*, 1200 rpms 32* ramping down to 27* at 3200 and 4200, then ramping back up to 32* at 6000rpms and carrying 32* to the redline. The thought process on this is the cam grinder thinks max torque will be around 3200 to 4200 and the engine is most efficient at max torque ,therefore it doesnt need as much advance. The futher away from max torque the less efficient the engine is ,so the more lead it needs. It seems that cathedral port heads like less timing than the LS3 heads I am running ( usually about 3-4 degrees). Most guys seem to like about 27-28* on cathedrals, so Im thinking 30-32 will be about right for the square ports.
What do you all think?
The No 5 chip had 20* map advance and the engine does not recognize that there is no map on the car. If the map advance starts at ,say 20*, it will add that advance across the board because it sees no change the the vacuum on the engine.
The whole time I thought I wouldnt be able to run much advance because I had spark knock with the NO6 chip. I was running as much as 46* with the NO6 chip!!!
Just a heads up for the guys out there running the msd on the plug in chips without a laptop to see what the timing is REALLY doing.
I now have a curve in the MSD I think will be a good starting point and am planning a trip to the track this Saturday or next to fine tune the timing.
the curve reads as follows.....100 rpms 20*, 800 rpms 26*, 1200 rpms 32* ramping down to 27* at 3200 and 4200, then ramping back up to 32* at 6000rpms and carrying 32* to the redline. The thought process on this is the cam grinder thinks max torque will be around 3200 to 4200 and the engine is most efficient at max torque ,therefore it doesnt need as much advance. The futher away from max torque the less efficient the engine is ,so the more lead it needs. It seems that cathedral port heads like less timing than the LS3 heads I am running ( usually about 3-4 degrees). Most guys seem to like about 27-28* on cathedrals, so Im thinking 30-32 will be about right for the square ports.
What do you all think?
#2
TECH Junkie
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That's old news about zeroing out the MAP curve when not running one. What doesn't make sense is the readings. With no sensor installed, the MAP value should be 0 pressure which, one would think, would pull all MAP timing. I've never verified that, but you'd think MSD would set it up that way. After all, MAP timing should only occur under vacuum conditions...
#5
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I got on the MSD forums and sure enough, you are right.
Seems like that is the sort of thing they should call out in the instructions. It is flat out wrong to say running a MAP is optional then put a MAP curve in the pills that will ALWAYS give max advance.
Seems like that is the sort of thing they should call out in the instructions. It is flat out wrong to say running a MAP is optional then put a MAP curve in the pills that will ALWAYS give max advance.
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With no map sensor connected to the MSD plug, my msd programing shows a slight map reading. Enough to make the software add map timing if the map graph isnt zeroed out. I think/hope/wish that MSD would get a little more "with the times" reguarding the software. There are SO many more things that they could do to make the software more user friendly, as well as having more features. Eric L
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#12
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A smart phone app and bluetooth connection PLUS a password or some type of encryption on the link so the guy in the lane next to you can't retard your timing. Otherwise racing could enter the cyber warfare age.
#14
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Im all in for that!! That is the next thing I will have to learn after the mechanical( for lack of a better word ) timing is dialed in. I have the NTO5Rs on the car now, so Im ready to go. Unfortunatly, my local track has a big motocross deal going on this weekend, so maybe next Saturday?
#16
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just been on the engine dyno tonight...
ls3 crate...
224/230...114 (2 degrees adv)comp cam..
lunati dual spring kit..
dual row timing set
25%ud balancer..
chev single plane intake..
750 ultra hp carb..
1.75"tr-y headers..2.5"mufflers..
msd 6012 box(timing as follows...
20@100rpm..
26@800rpm..
32@1200rpm
down to 27@3200rpm-5200
ramping up to 32 through to 6400
it made a conservative 510hp/485lb @6300
making 430ft/lb @3300....and carrying right through to 485 @6000rpm
thanks to newschool 72 for the tuning tips.....8)
ls3 crate...
224/230...114 (2 degrees adv)comp cam..
lunati dual spring kit..
dual row timing set
25%ud balancer..
chev single plane intake..
750 ultra hp carb..
1.75"tr-y headers..2.5"mufflers..
msd 6012 box(timing as follows...
20@100rpm..
26@800rpm..
32@1200rpm
down to 27@3200rpm-5200
ramping up to 32 through to 6400
it made a conservative 510hp/485lb @6300
making 430ft/lb @3300....and carrying right through to 485 @6000rpm
thanks to newschool 72 for the tuning tips.....8)