Allstar_15

Hey LS1Tech Community!

I've inherited a 4th gen Camaro that I want to transform into my dream car. It's a V6 with 20 years of Canadian road wear, so I know it needs some love (especially the undercarriage). But the body panels are still in good shape, and I'm determined to make it an awesome weekend cruiser/occasional drag strip toy. This car is more than just a vehicle to me, it's a passion project. Junking it is not an option.

Here's the deal:

• Budget: $60,000 CAD (roughly $45,000-50,000 USD)
• Goal: ~600 HP street/strip car with comfortable ride for pothole-ridden city streets
• Current Wheels: Stock 16" x 8" 5 Lug, 4.75" Bolt Pattern (want to keep them)

My Thoughts (So Far):

• Engine/Transmission: I'm eyeing the Chevy Connect & Cruise LT4 with the SuperMatic 10L90-E transmission. Worried about the wiring complexity, though. I also took a look at LT1 and LS3.
• Ultimate Sleeper: I want to keep the stock gauges working and the car looking as stock as possible

Now, I need your expert advice!

Here's what I'm hoping you can help me with:

• Engine: Is the LT4 the best choice for my goals and budget? Any other crate engine recommendations? Would the LT4 work in a 4th gen camaro body?
• Transmission: Is the 10L90-E the right match for the LT4? Alternatives? I have also read about the 4l70, 6l80, any preferred for the street? I would like to keep it an automatic and have quick shifts.
• Rear End: What rear end would handle 600 HP and still be streetable? Gear ratio suggestions?
• Suspension: I want a good balance of performance and comfort. What setup would you recommend?
• Brakes: I need brakes that can stop this beast reliably. Big brake kits? Suggestions? Does it need aftermarket traction control, I’m unsure if it comes with the car stock.
• Wiring: Any advice on simplifying the LT4/10L90-E wiring or other engines to keep the stock gauges functional?
• Tires: What size and type of tires would you recommend for my stock 16" wheels to maximize grip and handling?
• Additional Considerations: Any other must-have upgrades or modifications I should consider within my budget? Is my budget realistic?

I know this is a lot, but I really appreciate any detailed advice you can offer. I've been lurking on the forums, but I'm still a newbie to the world of performance builds. Thanks for helping me bring my dream Camaro to life!

01CamaroSSTx

iTrader: (3)

Welcome to LS1Tech!

This is coming from a guy who's actually converted a 4th Gen V6 car over to V8 and done complete driveline overhauls on two 4th Gen Camaro's. My advice is to not go down this path, I've spent a lot of time and money on these cars and you're never going to get back the money you put into them. I would sell the V6 car and take all my money and invest it into a base model C6 Corvette but if you're serious about doing this then you've come to the right place to find the answers.

It was over ten years ago when I built my image of a bad *** 4th Gen Camaro SS street car. I've got over 20k invested in the engine and my guess is that it will cost much more than that these days. Good luck with your build!

Finkledbody

Sadly $50k might not be enough if the shell isn’t super clean.

$20-25k for engine/transmission/harness from a wrecked 6th gen

$10k-15k for rust, body and paint

$4-6k for rear axle

$15k-20k in labor

$3-10k in misc/unforeseen issues



labor of love can make it worth the money, time can be a cruel mistress

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would say that even this figure is too low, unless you're doing most of the prep work yourself and/or you're willing to cut corners/have a mediocre finish. In my area, ~$18-20k would be the starting point for a show quality paint job - but that's on a car that doesn't need all that rust repair. Even if you don't want "show quality", there is going to be a ton of expense involved in rust repair and prep work unless doing that part yourself.

Frankly, there are still plenty of super nice rust free (or nearly rust free) 4th gens with nice paint on the market to purchase for far less than it would cost to properly restore and paint one, so I would never consider restoring one at this point (unless I was a paint/body guy by trade perhaps).

Beyond that, I would not look at any engine platform newer than an LS3. IMO that was the peak, and everything since then has become overly complex without offering enough improvement to be worth dealing with the extra complexity or expense. The LS3/Gen IV platform can give you everything you want and then some.

Finkledbody

agreed that show quality paint can exceed $20k. Plenty of shops around me that do rust work and will throw a nice coat of paint for far less though. Just depends what the OP is going for.

$50k doesn’t go far anymore when ur talking a ground up build

Allstar_15

Hey all, thanks so much for the initial feedback, I appreciate it! Looks like my budget should be increased to be around 75-80K which I still feel would be ok with the price of new cars now a days. In terms of parts, how would you build your dream Camaro, I'm curious to hear for some inspiration and guidance! What would you get?

jybravo70

iTrader: (5)

Try your best to divorce emotion from project plans. This car has sentimental value to you and you want to keep it around but improve the performance. You have some rough goals but really look into what is achievable. I keep the relationship with your car you'll want to do some of this yourself but know your limitations and how to avoid the snowballing pitfall we all have fallen into from time to time. Why not rebuild the V-6 and go forced induction? Putting a manual into an auto chassis will be a lot of work (just getting the clutch pedal and all the sensors working is a lot of work!) Your goal seems to be transforming the car into something else, will it still hold the same sentimental value after the transformation? Personally I wanted to get a 76 to 78 TA and resto-mod it from the ground up. Luckily I tallied up all the parts first and after looking at that and labor needed I decided buying a last of breed car was far cheaper and would serve my goals better (don't overlook how maintenance and repairs will be done, if heavily modified some shops won't work on it and others will charge an arm and leg to for obvious reasons).

If you must go down this road, one I never have tried, I would suggest this 1 key thing; document EVERYTHING!!! I mean each step, item replaced and what replaced it and how it was replaced. You will need to have an actual service manual's worth of documentation on the car when done. This will make your life easier down the road as repairs are needed. Upgrade the brakes? With what, you need to list part numbers, torque specs, and what was changed. Same for everything else. Do as much work as you can yourself but document it all, on paper and not just with pictures/videos (those are helpful too but getting it on paper is key). Replace the ECU and BCM to get all your add ons to work? You will need FULL wiring diagrams of what goes where and if anything is missing or not used what it is and isn't there anymore (think about the future, if you get a knock sensor code in 3 years after the build what sensor do you need, is it compatible with your wiring, what are the spec's need to fit the engine and ECU?). While some stuff is plug and play, some isn't and this is where things go wrong down the line when you need to take the car in for what seems something simple (rear brakes that end up being a rear disc replacement, well if no longer stock how will the shop know what discs, calipers, pads, traction control sensor, wheel bearings, etc. to order and install?) You will have to be the expert on this build and say you keep it for the rest of your life, if your relatives inherit it how will they ever know how to troubleshoot or fix anything on it? Nobody wants to unwind someone else's mess and guesswork. In 10 years will you really remember how you wired in those neat new LED headlights and what pig-tails part numbers you used so you can get new ones? Still undeterred, then go for it but the more you plan out now and prepare for the better it will be on the other end. Have limits in place and stick to them. Never gold-plate or "while I am here and replacing X I might as well do Y and Z updates. Keep it simple and keep it fun.

JohnnyBs98WS6Rag

iTrader: (1)

IMO, if I had $50K to spend on a used car, you could get SO MUCH MORE than what you'll end up with spending that $50K starting w/ a V6 Camaro (used 5th or 6th gen ZL1??). Can it be done? Sure (although not so sure about that 10-speed trans fitting the f-body tunnel without floor-pan surgery......which will ripple into the interior). But a 5th or 6th gen Camaro is a superior platform to the 4th gens, I hate to admit. Especially if you are set on retaining the 16x8 wheels. You'll never get enough rubber on those rims to safely handle 600+ HP either in a straight line or in curves.

blackbyrd

iTrader: (14)

I have a differing opinion

I did the v6 to v8 swap went straight from 6 cylinder to stroker v8 and converted from an auto to a manual. Overhauled the suspension, fuel system, and drive train. Took almost 3 years finished in 07 so cost was different and the amount of body work needed for me was minimal. This was 100% a sentimental build it was my 1st car.

That kind of build can be worth it, but don't expect modern car performance out of it. From experience don't get tied up in a HP number. If i was to do it again knowing what i know now I'd shoot for 450 to the wheels. Do an ls3 6 speed combo and be happy. A10 is out without heavy chassis mods. 6l80e is doable but I think it requires some panel massaging. Physically 4l80e and t56 only require you swap the tranny cross member. Wiring wise the engine harness handles most of it. Park neutral switch can be bypassed

has anyone put a new LT in a 4th gen?? I don't know if an LT4 would even fit? Lsa requires some modifications to the wiper cowl to fit. I'd stick to NA. Ls3 with some tweaks can be run on the ls1 ecm/harness and retain stock gauges will plug into the car as is.

I did a lot of stand alone stuff on mine, but you can literally buy a v8 engine harness and direct swap it into the v6 and the electrical is 95% done as long as you match year to year.

depending on the year you can use the fuel tank, but v6's have a true return line, where ls1's only have a feed line into the engine bay. I ran new lines and outna reg in the enginenbay instead swapping tanks. The pump will need to be upgraded, but just get a newer walbro and a hot wire kit.

k member needs to be swapped to accomdste v8 motor mounts.

radiator needs to be swapped

those are the highlights, it is a lot of work and if you can't do it yourself that's where it gets expensive.

Now the above are right, newer platforms will feel better and be a better base. I love my firebird, but with the amount of money in dollars and my time I have invested in it, it will never be like my Zl1. So really think about what you want out of this build and be honest about your limits.

Good luck!

Kjduvall

i agree with pretty much every thing these guys above have said. look in the market place here, there is a nice white bird (its got a blower) for sale ( not cheap but very nice car) you could get that then change the wheels/converter/do a s60 rear to make it your own style and have a damn nice car for well under your budget if your stuck on the fourth gen style.

Finkledbody

If ur stuck on the car.
Body/paint $10k-20k
LS3 making 550-600hp $15k
Built 6l80e. $6k
MWC 12 bolt $5k
Afcos $2600
Complete UMI suspension $3-4k
Misc. $3-10k

Add 3 years of ur time, hopefully u won’t give up half way through.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would still say that the OP really needs to talk to some shops in his area, maybe to some other regional enthusiasts that know of shops and have had this sort of work done recently, etc. We don't really know how bad the rust issues are; if the car needs floor pans, quarter panel rust repair, etc., on top of needing paint and such, it might be a lot more expensive than he's expecting.

It sounds like this type of work might be cheaper in your area, so I hope for the OP's sake that his local prices are closer to yours (vs. mine). I have a friend that recently went through this locally; even going with the cheapest estimate/shop, by the time it was done the cost ended up being as much as the more (initially) expensive estimates. I just can't see getting through this part of the process for any less than $20k (minimum) unless you're doing a bunch of the work yourself - but, again, it might just be a lot more expensive in my area.

Finkledbody

this is all irrelevant as he asked what we would do with said budget. Though I do not disagree with anything you said.

He is asking for a hypothetical, what would u do with a $70-$80k budget to a v6 fbody? With limited information.

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

From experience, $80,000 won't get you what you want unless you're doing a very large amount of the work.

Had my daily driver, a 25 year old, 91 RS with 389,500 miles on it restored and LS swapped.

Total cost was $57,000 in 2015-2016 and I already had the 383 LS1 and many other parts. Factoring in the cost of the other parts the cost was ~$74,000. My car was rust free and in overall excellent condition for the age and miles being driven daily except in winter. I would have had to spend another ~$15,000 to $20,000 on body work, paint & interior parts to have show car quality.

Of course, that wasn't the end of spending 🙄

Added weight jacks to adjust ride height, several parts over the last nine years have had to be replaced. I'm still happy with my 91 RS but realize I cut too many corners and will be spending more in the years ahead. Luckily, that sort of toy fits my budget.

So as the others mentioned, if the v6 car is special to you, fix it up or keep it but pass on spending the money to build the car.

I still miss the fact my 91 RS w/305 TBI could get ~32 to 33 mpg highway...~24 to 25 mpg isn't too bad with the 383 LS1 & 4.11 gears...but near perfect reliability and great mileage was part of the 91 RS's charm.

Even if you fix up the 4th Gen, it's still an Old Car, it will have Old Car status with most folks like your friends etc. It will not be as comfortable, ride as well or drive as nice as a 20 year newer car. The car won't have all of today's build in technology & bells & whistles. Many newer performance cars ( especially electric) will stomp it into the dirt, sleeper or not with a measly 600 hp. You're going to want more...

Spend the $50,000 on a 6th Gen SS Camaro or similar.