Extending shorties????
11-06-2008, 10:49 AM
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Extending shorties???? Ok this might be a noob questions but I am looking at extending a set of shorties on my rx-7. I want to go LT's but the only ones made for the FD are around a grand and I would still have to mod my subframe. So my question is has anyone ever extended a set of shorties? If not do you guys think it would be worth it?
11-06-2008, 10:56 AM
#2
That is a lot of deconstruction work to do, and all you'll end up with are headers with primary stubs and collectors. In my opinion, just buy LS1 flanges and some collectors and start with a clean slate, or have someone do it.
After cutting up the shorties, altho it might seem like you've saved some effort by having flanges/collectors with tubes on them, I bet with all the chopping it will have actually taken longer than just starting from scratch.
Good luck tho, and keep us informed on how it works, with pics!
After cutting up the shorties, altho it might seem like you've saved some effort by having flanges/collectors with tubes on them, I bet with all the chopping it will have actually taken longer than just starting from scratch.
Good luck tho, and keep us informed on how it works, with pics!
11-06-2008, 11:16 AM
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I think I am going to give it a shot...not sure yet. I think overall I will end up with something like a mid-length. I don't have a bender or have access to one so starting from scratch might be over my head. Thanks for the reply.
11-06-2008, 12:02 PM
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You certainly don't need a bender to build a set of headers. Yes, it's easier with a bender, but you can do it without one.
Flanges and collector parts are readily available. There are good parts out there that are alot better than the stuff the shorties come with. For example, the collectors used on the shorties aren't usually worth anything. They're way too short in length to be good for much (the individual tubes don't scavenge well because of the approach angle), so you really don't want to re-use them in a set of long tubes. And the flanges are likely to be thin, and in the case of header flanges, thicker is better.
Another reason I think that starting with a set of shorties and hacking them up will be a disadvantage is that most shorties aren't available in the best tube diameters (usually you see 1.5" or 1.625")for LSx motors (which seem to do well with 1.750" or 1.875" primary tubes). I certainly wouldn't build a set of 1.5" long tubes for an LSx (unless its a 4.8l) because it'd be alot of effort expended for little to no gain.
If you really want to hack and chop on a set of headers, look at the various catalog long tube offerings. The Ford small block headers have about the right spacing (between ports) that you can swap flanges if you can find headers to mostly fit in your chassis. Would certainly be a better starting point than a set of shorties.
If it was me, I'd still be starting with a kit, flanges, collectors, and a box of extra bends.
But it's not me, that's just my $.02. Do what you think is the best solution.
'JustDreamin'
Flanges and collector parts are readily available. There are good parts out there that are alot better than the stuff the shorties come with. For example, the collectors used on the shorties aren't usually worth anything. They're way too short in length to be good for much (the individual tubes don't scavenge well because of the approach angle), so you really don't want to re-use them in a set of long tubes. And the flanges are likely to be thin, and in the case of header flanges, thicker is better.
Another reason I think that starting with a set of shorties and hacking them up will be a disadvantage is that most shorties aren't available in the best tube diameters (usually you see 1.5" or 1.625")for LSx motors (which seem to do well with 1.750" or 1.875" primary tubes). I certainly wouldn't build a set of 1.5" long tubes for an LSx (unless its a 4.8l) because it'd be alot of effort expended for little to no gain.
If you really want to hack and chop on a set of headers, look at the various catalog long tube offerings. The Ford small block headers have about the right spacing (between ports) that you can swap flanges if you can find headers to mostly fit in your chassis. Would certainly be a better starting point than a set of shorties.
If it was me, I'd still be starting with a kit, flanges, collectors, and a box of extra bends.
But it's not me, that's just my $.02. Do what you think is the best solution.
'JustDreamin'
11-06-2008, 05:17 PM
#5
most shorties are 1 5/8 primaries most long tubes are 1 3/4 or 1 7/8. just buy flanges and collectors and make your own. you can probably just weld elbows together for bends.small pipes seem pointless imo.
oops! I guess I should have read the above post. We make the same point
oops! I guess I should have read the above post. We make the same point
11-06-2008, 05:34 PM
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www.speedwaymotors.com sells kits witrh various bends, collectors and flanges. Cutting the old ones up is going to take some work, since you will have to take each tube off to fully weld the tube extensions. Might be cheaper to sell the shorties and buy a kit, can have everything for a kit for a little over 250 bucks or so.
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11-07-2008, 04:36 AM
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I've done 3 sets.
I learned to use stainless as it lasts forever. If you use mild steel and decide to wrap them they just crack and break.
Very time consuming but on one application (SBC Volvo) I gained 40 hp. over a set of block hugger shorties. The difference was HUGE.
Try to keep lengths somewhat equal though not a MUST. More important to keep merges, collectors smooth. A "Y" merge works much better than a "T" merge.
We are just now realizing the LSX stuff likes big primaries. At least 1 3/4" even 1 7/8 if room allows.
I've used stuff from STAHL for mild steel
STAINLESS WORKS for stainless
A complete system for my car front to back including 2} 3 inch Magnaflows and Dynaflow junk Cats was 1500 bucks just in parts and around 80 hours of fab time.
I learned to use stainless as it lasts forever. If you use mild steel and decide to wrap them they just crack and break.
Very time consuming but on one application (SBC Volvo) I gained 40 hp. over a set of block hugger shorties. The difference was HUGE.
Try to keep lengths somewhat equal though not a MUST. More important to keep merges, collectors smooth. A "Y" merge works much better than a "T" merge.
We are just now realizing the LSX stuff likes big primaries. At least 1 3/4" even 1 7/8 if room allows.
I've used stuff from STAHL for mild steel
STAINLESS WORKS for stainless
A complete system for my car front to back including 2} 3 inch Magnaflows and Dynaflow junk Cats was 1500 bucks just in parts and around 80 hours of fab time.