LS1 and 200-4r to L92 / T56 in 71 Chevelle convertible...now Gen V LT1 6L80e swapping
11-25-2011, 12:37 AM
#261
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wow the trunk and hood are badass!
you have some bad luck though man I dont get it!
when you get the motor in and everything peachy let me know and i'll come mess with the tune
you have some bad luck though man I dont get it!
when you get the motor in and everything peachy let me know and i'll come mess with the tune
11-25-2011, 03:54 AM
#262
My bad luck must be my tuner.
Just kidding, I know I gave you a mess of random garbage to work with. Plus I put these motors back together myself and have no real clue what I'm doing. In hindsight I'm surprised it ran at all, but this time I think this motor is going to be legit.
The carbon stuff in the sun is the coolest stuff ever. It's kind of ricer when you first see it, but then you get used to it.
Moving on to less important things I took some pics of the vvt water pump vs a regular truck water pump. I read on here that a truck vvt water pump would clear the TB on an LS3 intake. While I haven't bolted the TB into place yet (still waiting on the adapter plate) so far it looks like it should work. I'm kind of stuck using truck accessory stuff since that is what I started with and that is what my a/c comp and kwik bracket are set up for. The major hurdle at this point is the TV cable and getting the angles right. I think I have enough random pieces to make it work but winter makes me lazy so it might be a while.
I forgot to double check the other day but the crank sensor is black. Thank god.
The pics below compare the LQ9 water pump to the newer L92 vvt pump; most people probably don't care but here it is in case I'm not the only one running an old *** trans (and dbc tvmadeez setup) with an ls3/l92. All the major bolt points look to be the same but the hose connection point is moved. There is also a gap between the motor and the pump itself; kind of looks like an old school sbc pump.
VVT pump outlet is angled down more.
Despite the difference in their shapes the belt surfaces are the same distance from the block face.
Once I actually get the motor in the car I'll see how the belt lines up, but I spent most of today stuffing my face and sleeping. Once I heard that the forecast called for about 4 months of cold as ***** BS weather I said screw it. There are only a handful of days each year when it's worth the trouble to drive a 40 year old convertible in TN anyway, and none of those days are in Dec, Jan, Feb or March.
Just kidding, I know I gave you a mess of random garbage to work with. Plus I put these motors back together myself and have no real clue what I'm doing. In hindsight I'm surprised it ran at all, but this time I think this motor is going to be legit.
The carbon stuff in the sun is the coolest stuff ever. It's kind of ricer when you first see it, but then you get used to it.
Moving on to less important things I took some pics of the vvt water pump vs a regular truck water pump. I read on here that a truck vvt water pump would clear the TB on an LS3 intake. While I haven't bolted the TB into place yet (still waiting on the adapter plate) so far it looks like it should work. I'm kind of stuck using truck accessory stuff since that is what I started with and that is what my a/c comp and kwik bracket are set up for. The major hurdle at this point is the TV cable and getting the angles right. I think I have enough random pieces to make it work but winter makes me lazy so it might be a while.
I forgot to double check the other day but the crank sensor is black. Thank god.
The pics below compare the LQ9 water pump to the newer L92 vvt pump; most people probably don't care but here it is in case I'm not the only one running an old *** trans (and dbc tvmadeez setup) with an ls3/l92. All the major bolt points look to be the same but the hose connection point is moved. There is also a gap between the motor and the pump itself; kind of looks like an old school sbc pump.
VVT pump outlet is angled down more.
Despite the difference in their shapes the belt surfaces are the same distance from the block face.
Once I actually get the motor in the car I'll see how the belt lines up, but I spent most of today stuffing my face and sleeping. Once I heard that the forecast called for about 4 months of cold as ***** BS weather I said screw it. There are only a handful of days each year when it's worth the trouble to drive a 40 year old convertible in TN anyway, and none of those days are in Dec, Jan, Feb or March.
Last edited by chuckd71; 01-27-2012 at 05:22 AM.
12-12-2011, 02:54 AM
#263
Been busy working, moving and being out of town but today I tried to address the throttle and tv cables. Based on the measurements from my truck intake setup my tv cable needs to be somewhere in the vicinity of the top corner of this triangle.
I don't think it'll be too hard to use one of my old brackets to whip up a new one (I'll have to get someone else to weld it though), but the MAP looks like it will be in the way. Can I take the clip off the end of the black plastic flex tube and stick my MAP in there? Or can I just take that tube off and use a short section of rubber hose instead? I'm not sure what else I would need this port to connect to in my setup.
This is the plate that lets you run an ls1 tb on an ls2/3 intake. Still need to double check water pump clearance with it in place but I think it's going to work.
I don't think it'll be too hard to use one of my old brackets to whip up a new one (I'll have to get someone else to weld it though), but the MAP looks like it will be in the way. Can I take the clip off the end of the black plastic flex tube and stick my MAP in there? Or can I just take that tube off and use a short section of rubber hose instead? I'm not sure what else I would need this port to connect to in my setup.
This is the plate that lets you run an ls1 tb on an ls2/3 intake. Still need to double check water pump clearance with it in place but I think it's going to work.
Last edited by chuckd71; 12-12-2011 at 05:56 AM.
01-07-2012, 04:52 PM
#266
Got around messing with the car a (little) bit today, didn't get much done other than swapping oil pans and cleaning up some but I did get to take a look inside the bottom end. From what I can tell everything looks pretty clean, the 24X reluctor has been swapped in place of the 58X and the plastic timing chain spacer is in there as well, so it looks like everything that needs to be done has been done (I was told it was, but it never hurts to double check).
Tomorrow I should get the throttle bracket done, but in the mean time I've been thinking about my PCV options. There are several threads about this stuff already and I've gone through a few but I'm wondering if I should swap valley covers. The one on the motor now has no PCV provision (it's just flat on top like the one I had on my ls1), but I had one of these just sitting around I could put on if doing so would be worth while.
Like many others I have some tie rod to oil pan clearance issues, mainly on the driver's side at full lock. The tie rods of 71s and 72s have the zerk/ alemite fitting on the very end, pointing at the pan, while the 70s have the fittings on the backs of ends.
A pic of my old one.
And the new ones. The 70's setup is the same in terms of lengths but the diameters of the tie rods and sleeves are different. I'm replacing everything with Moog stuff for a 70. Picked up inner and outer tie rods, sleeves, an idler arm a center link and a pitman arm from rockauto for $200 or so which seemed pretty reasonable. Just as a data point, all the boxes say "Made in USA". This change alone will not solve my problems but everything steering-related under the car is rotting anyway so it's a step in the right direction.
Tomorrow I should get the throttle bracket done, but in the mean time I've been thinking about my PCV options. There are several threads about this stuff already and I've gone through a few but I'm wondering if I should swap valley covers. The one on the motor now has no PCV provision (it's just flat on top like the one I had on my ls1), but I had one of these just sitting around I could put on if doing so would be worth while.
Like many others I have some tie rod to oil pan clearance issues, mainly on the driver's side at full lock. The tie rods of 71s and 72s have the zerk/ alemite fitting on the very end, pointing at the pan, while the 70s have the fittings on the backs of ends.
A pic of my old one.
And the new ones. The 70's setup is the same in terms of lengths but the diameters of the tie rods and sleeves are different. I'm replacing everything with Moog stuff for a 70. Picked up inner and outer tie rods, sleeves, an idler arm a center link and a pitman arm from rockauto for $200 or so which seemed pretty reasonable. Just as a data point, all the boxes say "Made in USA". This change alone will not solve my problems but everything steering-related under the car is rotting anyway so it's a step in the right direction.
Last edited by chuckd71; 01-09-2012 at 08:11 PM.
01-09-2012, 02:38 PM
#267
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Nice car. Your pic and info are very helpful. I am currently doing about the same swap in my 70 Chevelle. Keep the info coming.....
https://ls1tech.com/forums/introduct...elle-fire.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/introduct...elle-fire.html
01-09-2012, 08:43 PM
#268
Thanks, sorry to read about the whole burning car thing but I guess on the bright side it gave you a reason to upgrade.
The potential fire hazard of all the new electronics thrown in mine has had me thinking that it's time to make it safer and more efficient and reading about yours has kind of validated those thoughts.
From reading about the American Autowire/ Painless/ etc wiring kits it seems most of them are little more than a newer version of our old stuff, with the same thin wires and adequate layouts - stuff that's good enough for a stock car but not designed for what most of us are doing. That being the case I'm going to pick this up and use it as a starting point.
http://www.madelectrical.com/newstuff/
If anyone has used it feel free to chime in. One of the aspects I like is the way it handles the starter, which I had planned to rewire anyway for reasons I will go into later after some more testing.
Here is a good thread over on chevelles.com that has a ton of wiring info and discussion. A long but worthwhile read.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300744
The potential fire hazard of all the new electronics thrown in mine has had me thinking that it's time to make it safer and more efficient and reading about yours has kind of validated those thoughts.
From reading about the American Autowire/ Painless/ etc wiring kits it seems most of them are little more than a newer version of our old stuff, with the same thin wires and adequate layouts - stuff that's good enough for a stock car but not designed for what most of us are doing. That being the case I'm going to pick this up and use it as a starting point.
http://www.madelectrical.com/newstuff/
If anyone has used it feel free to chime in. One of the aspects I like is the way it handles the starter, which I had planned to rewire anyway for reasons I will go into later after some more testing.
Here is a good thread over on chevelles.com that has a ton of wiring info and discussion. A long but worthwhile read.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=300744
01-09-2012, 09:24 PM
#270
You mean on the 71-style tie rods? I'm not sure how much shorter they would be, since they would still have to stick out a certain amount to have room for the 90 degree bend.
For my part I just didn't want anything pointing at the oil pan, as something as small as a zerk would concentrate any force applied to it (turning the wheel) and poke through a pan if given the chance (or at least that was my thinking, putting aside that 70 parts were cheaper by a decent margin).
As it sits the 71 zerks have never hit anything, but if I swap a trans or oil pans who knows what might happen. Absent a significant and unexpected downside the 70s seem like a resonable way to go.
Changing subjects, I had mentioned before that I'm using Dirty Dingo slider mounts but wasn't impressed with the overall quality of the bolts used. This is what my mounts look like after no real use (car has several hundred ls-powered miles on it).
Two of the bolts that are welded to the plates have broken off. I'm no expert, but it looks like they are hollow.
Pretty poor quality control here; as I know at least one of them broke during install. If the rest of them snap as easily as the first ones then there could be problems. Edit- It's 10pm here in TN and it took about 5 minutes to get an email from a real person, so I can't knock their customer service.
Double edit - the guy who emailed me said I had the first version, that they did in fact suck and they tried to replace them all. They don't sell ones like I have anymore so breaking bolts shouldn't be a concern.
Guess that's what I get for trying to be an early adopter, but they are going to send me some of the new style which is pretty awesome. I'll post pics when I get them.
For my part I just didn't want anything pointing at the oil pan, as something as small as a zerk would concentrate any force applied to it (turning the wheel) and poke through a pan if given the chance (or at least that was my thinking, putting aside that 70 parts were cheaper by a decent margin).
As it sits the 71 zerks have never hit anything, but if I swap a trans or oil pans who knows what might happen. Absent a significant and unexpected downside the 70s seem like a resonable way to go.
Changing subjects, I had mentioned before that I'm using Dirty Dingo slider mounts but wasn't impressed with the overall quality of the bolts used. This is what my mounts look like after no real use (car has several hundred ls-powered miles on it).
Two of the bolts that are welded to the plates have broken off. I'm no expert, but it looks like they are hollow.
Pretty poor quality control here; as I know at least one of them broke during install. If the rest of them snap as easily as the first ones then there could be problems. Edit- It's 10pm here in TN and it took about 5 minutes to get an email from a real person, so I can't knock their customer service.
Double edit - the guy who emailed me said I had the first version, that they did in fact suck and they tried to replace them all. They don't sell ones like I have anymore so breaking bolts shouldn't be a concern.
Guess that's what I get for trying to be an early adopter, but they are going to send me some of the new style which is pretty awesome. I'll post pics when I get them.
Last edited by chuckd71; 01-09-2012 at 10:46 PM.
01-13-2012, 12:52 PM
#271
New Dirty Dingo sliders came in today and they look a lot better than the first versions. These have legit bolts welded in and they have redone them a bit and they look much more polished. Customer service was certainly top notch, especially considering how long ago I bought them. Definitely going to get more of these when I get around to swapping a motor into an old truck. Anyway, this is them, hopefully I can get them on this weekend.
If only every company were that helpful this hobby would be a lot more fun.
That kit from mad electrical I linked to a few days ago is $250, not $130 like it says on the website; the prices listed online are from 12 years ago and haven't been updated. For that kind of money I'm wondering if there might be a better option.
If only every company were that helpful this hobby would be a lot more fun.
That kit from mad electrical I linked to a few days ago is $250, not $130 like it says on the website; the prices listed online are from 12 years ago and haven't been updated. For that kind of money I'm wondering if there might be a better option.
Last edited by chuckd71; 01-18-2012 at 04:57 AM.
01-16-2012, 02:28 AM
#272
It was 27 degrees in the garage this morning so not much happened but I got the gauges more or less in cluster. After weighing some options it looks like using the original cluster back panel and building access panels will be the best way to leave things as modular as possible. I know I read about someone else putting these in a chevelle but now can't find the thread to see what exactly they did. The gauges are mounted to a flat piece of plastic trimmed to fit and they just need support from behind to hold them in place. Everything will get cleaned and painted but this should be more or less drop in at this point.
For lack of a better option I think I'll just paint the plastic that covers the old stock gauges and cut some holes in it in front of the new gauges (for button access). Pretty sure this is what the other guy did as well. I'll mount the clock somewhere in the dash proper.
If anybody knows of a good shop in the Nashville area that does suspension stuff let me know. What I need done is pretty straightforward it's just too damn cold in the garage to spend much time on it.
For lack of a better option I think I'll just paint the plastic that covers the old stock gauges and cut some holes in it in front of the new gauges (for button access). Pretty sure this is what the other guy did as well. I'll mount the clock somewhere in the dash proper.
If anybody knows of a good shop in the Nashville area that does suspension stuff let me know. What I need done is pretty straightforward it's just too damn cold in the garage to spend much time on it.
01-16-2012, 11:58 PM
#275
Thanks, I was surprised how well they fit in the holes.
They are Speedhut gauges, I also picked up a few more to go in the A-pillar. They can put most anything in the quad gauge, but I went with volts, fuel, water and oil pressure. The trim rings come off and are swappable, so if you wanted black or chrome or whatever you could do it pretty easily. The only real downside (if there is one) so far is that all of the gauges have buttons for controlling them on the front, meaning you can't just slap the original plastic back on top of them like stock.
Here is a link to the speedo, which is also available without turn signal indicators. http://www.speedhut.com/custom_gauge...number-886.htm
They are Speedhut gauges, I also picked up a few more to go in the A-pillar. They can put most anything in the quad gauge, but I went with volts, fuel, water and oil pressure. The trim rings come off and are swappable, so if you wanted black or chrome or whatever you could do it pretty easily. The only real downside (if there is one) so far is that all of the gauges have buttons for controlling them on the front, meaning you can't just slap the original plastic back on top of them like stock.
Here is a link to the speedo, which is also available without turn signal indicators. http://www.speedhut.com/custom_gauge...number-886.htm
01-30-2012, 04:28 PM
#276
Awesome weather here today so I spent an hour or so messing with the throttle cable bracket. The intake came with a piece of metal that looks to have served as a fuel rail guard, but after trying several other things I decided to cut/ bend/ drill it and make it work for my purposes. I think it'll work and I'm pretty sure it put everything more or less where it was with the truck intake. Might not be ideal, but there don't seem to be too many options for throttle cables for DBC setups on ls3 intakes.
I mentioned previously that I had read a VVT water pump would clear an LS3 intake (for those of us running truck accessories). Looks like it will, at least if you have a small tb (I don't have a bigger tb yet to try with). Do not take this as gospel that it will work, but it appears it will if you are using the same parts I am (which almost nobody will be). As you can see I do have a 1/2 inch or so spacer between the ls1 tb and the intake.
The pump outlet does just contact the tip of my TV made EZ piece, but that can be filed no problem. If you don't have the bowtieoverdrives kit then it should clear without the filing. Before I throw my motor back in I'm going to try and see if someone near me will loan me a 4 bolt tb to test out without the spacer.
I mentioned previously that I had read a VVT water pump would clear an LS3 intake (for those of us running truck accessories). Looks like it will, at least if you have a small tb (I don't have a bigger tb yet to try with). Do not take this as gospel that it will work, but it appears it will if you are using the same parts I am (which almost nobody will be). As you can see I do have a 1/2 inch or so spacer between the ls1 tb and the intake.
The pump outlet does just contact the tip of my TV made EZ piece, but that can be filed no problem. If you don't have the bowtieoverdrives kit then it should clear without the filing. Before I throw my motor back in I'm going to try and see if someone near me will loan me a 4 bolt tb to test out without the spacer.
02-10-2012, 04:21 AM
#277
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Nice progress. You definately step up your game with each snag you hit. I still cant believe the bad luck you had with 2 motors, but looks like the ball is in your court now
gauges look badass in there btw, nice choice. Mounts look good too...I wasnt very impressed with the old ones either
gauges look badass in there btw, nice choice. Mounts look good too...I wasnt very impressed with the old ones either
02-10-2012, 05:18 AM
#278
Guess the first two can be chalked up as practice motors. I think I saw that lq9 I traded you at Shacklett's a while back.
My best guess is that everything is more or less in place to come together, I just don't have any time to get it done (and I don't know how to pull axles). Most of the little kinks should be ironed out and I'm pretty sure I have everything needed parts-wise to do the brakes and suspension, but from a time/ money perspective at this point I probably come out ahead if I pay a shop to do it instead of taking time off work. That's not what I was wanting to do but I'm running out of time. Hopefully this Sunday will be nice enough I can finish the gauges and start running air lines and the ridepro wires, as there is no sense in paying someone to do that kind of easy stuff.
My best guess is that everything is more or less in place to come together, I just don't have any time to get it done (and I don't know how to pull axles). Most of the little kinks should be ironed out and I'm pretty sure I have everything needed parts-wise to do the brakes and suspension, but from a time/ money perspective at this point I probably come out ahead if I pay a shop to do it instead of taking time off work. That's not what I was wanting to do but I'm running out of time. Hopefully this Sunday will be nice enough I can finish the gauges and start running air lines and the ridepro wires, as there is no sense in paying someone to do that kind of easy stuff.
02-11-2012, 02:12 AM
#279
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I gave that motor to my uncle and its sitting in the extra building beside the main shop, you might have possibly seen it, hes a Shacklett, thats why I use them for everything lol.
You can def pull axles yourself, its very easy. take the diff cover off, turn the axle/driveshaft/carrier or whatever you can do to make it turn so you can see the bolt that holds the center pin in the carrier, pulll that bolt out, pull the pin out. push the axles inward and pull out the big c clips on the axles, then pull the axles out. I'm 100% positive you can do it, and it will give you an understanding how that stuff works. if you can swap 3 LS motors,. the rearend is easy!
You can def pull axles yourself, its very easy. take the diff cover off, turn the axle/driveshaft/carrier or whatever you can do to make it turn so you can see the bolt that holds the center pin in the carrier, pulll that bolt out, pull the pin out. push the axles inward and pull out the big c clips on the axles, then pull the axles out. I'm 100% positive you can do it, and it will give you an understanding how that stuff works. if you can swap 3 LS motors,. the rearend is easy!
02-11-2012, 09:16 AM
#280
It does seem pretty straight forward, but my biggest concern now is time, since I move to ATL in June and want to have this to cruise around in up here in the spring before I go. I'm going to see what I can get done during Feb but once March hits I think I'll have to farm it out. Let me know if you need some work.
Mid 20s in the garage now, looks like mid 50s next weekend so hoping for the best.
Mid 20s in the garage now, looks like mid 50s next weekend so hoping for the best.