LS1-Texan

So this all started when my brother got married and sold his 1970 Chevelle to my Dad, who was going to sell it to anyone who would buy it, so I decided to adopt it for myself. It currently has a stock 350 with a turbo 400 transmission and a 10 bolt rear. That simply won't do.

After about a month of being patient, I got a good deal on a 1999 Camaro SS with 78,000 miles on it for $2000. It had been wrecked, but it seems that the only damage to the car was the front part of the frame, both bumper covers, and the rear quarter panel. The airbags are even still intact and so are the t tops. I just finished stripping the car down to the bare frame and storing all the interior parts as well as all of the mechanical. We had to unbolt the suspension and lift the car off of the engine/transmission, but it all came out without a problem.

At this point, I am getting ready to pull the 350 and turbo 400 out and mount the LS1 and 4L60E and I thought I would ask some questions on here to figure out the next move. I have a 4L80E transmission from a 1 ton pick-up available to use as well. Could anyone give me some advise on the following:

1. Would it be difficult to use the 4L80E instead of the 4L60E? Is it worth it?
2. What is the best option for mounting the LS1 and transmission in a 1970 Chevelle? I've seen issues with oil pan clearance. I'm willing to spend a little more to avoid possible issues down the road.
3. I'm planning to use full length headers. Any suggestions on which ones to get?

Thanks for any help you guys can offer!

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Suggest you research the A-Body Swap thread in the FAQ

You most likely will have to do some cutting and welding if you go with a 4L80e.. unless you mount the engine forward and as low as you can. But lowering well cause oil pan issue. Is it worth it..? depend oh who you ask and how you expect to drive it.

Suggest use a MAST or Holley pan or one of the steel aftermarket pans for good clearance. you can also notch the F-Body pan, stay away from the LH8/muscle pan and truck pans. they just hang too low.

Many options on mounting, but their are pro/con for each style.. Standard, 1" setback or other.. suggest you use a package deal. header and mounts from the same manufactor, that will cut out some of the problems.

LS1-Texan

Thanks for the info bczee. I looked at the black Hooker headers with the ceramic coating. I wasnt able to find the mounting kit that they mentioned on the site. I'll give them a call when I'm ready to mount the engine. I've had tonsilitis for the past several days, so my plan to get the car running with the LS1 before I go back to school (I'm a physics teacher) may not happen.

I'm glad you warned me about the truck/muscle pans. I stumbled on a "sure-fire fit" kit with a cheap oil pan listed as a muscle kit. After looking into it further it was one of the truck pans. The Holley pan seemed to be the way to go.

I'm not planning on burning up the road or the track with this car, but I wanted to keep my options open if I decided to turbo charge it in the future. For now I just want a fun car for cruising. I think I will go ahead and us a 9 inch Ford rear since I need a new one any way. My brother stripped out the current rear by using a shift kit.

Any advice you can offer me on things I should plan for down the road? What were some of the biggest problems you faced while doing the conversion?

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

The threads in the stickies mentioned have tons of info about problems, but not all Chevelle/ GTO swaps are in there so searching for 'chevelle' will bring up more threads. Problems will depend on what you want to do and how you choose to go about doing it. Read everyone else's threads, pick the parts you like, decide what exactly it is you want to do and then go from there. In the beginning you never know how much you don't know so read and then read some more.
A CTS-V oil pan should work, though mine gets hit by my steering arm at full lock (might not be an issue with my new suspension setup but it's not on yet). Might want to look into a grand national fuel tank, I've read that they might fit and might be baffled as well. What are you going to do about getting the speedo to work? Do the Es have any provisions for a mech speedo output? I'm not sure how much larger the 80 might be, but if you have to cut the firewall to put it in I'd just use the 60 (personal opinion). As for planning, plan to spend more than you think you will.

psiconversion

iTrader: (5)

Chuck, there are companies out there that sell dual output tailshaft housings for the 4L60e transmission. It allows use of both the mechanical and electronic speedo. There is also the cable x box, although I have never used one, so I dont know how well they work.

Jon
PSI

74novacustom

agreed, use the 60. you can sell the 80 to help pay for some conversion parts.

LS1-Texan

The current instrument panel isnt working very well, so I was going to just replace it with a new modern electric panel. It's going to cost about $1000 for the panel and gauges, but it should simplify that issue and give a better quality result. I had also considered using the interior from an '06 Monte Carlo SS. I've seen a few people use the seats and the end result was very impressive. I haven't seen anyone use the whole dash, but I'm sure that would be a massive undertaking.

The 4L80e will most likely be sold to pay for a rear end. I'm hoping to also sell all the random parts left from the donor car to at least make my money back. That would really advace the project along.

After the engine work is done, I'm taking it all back out and doing a frame-off restoration. I grew up working in a body shop, so that will be something I'm used to. I'm trying to figure out a way to completely stop the rust from coming back. Looks like my best option is POR-15, but I have never used it myself. Can it be painted over? My brother took a lot of shortcuts when restored this car 10 years ago and it's starting to show. I want to avoid that at all costs.

74novacustom

What is making you spend the money on a Ford 9" dont get me wrong they are amazing and hold a ton of power, But for the 400hp that you are going to be throwing at it, a 10 bolt with a set of gears and posi would be just fine at a fraction of the cost.

Dakota Digital has the whole Digital package for your car for 770

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd232.htm

Or you could make your own Sheet metal insert for 10.00 in steel and put all autometer Gauges for around 400 to 500.

LS1-Texan

You have a good point on the rear end. I'm not sure what is in store for the car down the road. We may turbo charge it at some point and update the suspension. In that case, I wouldn't have to worry about the drive train if I do the ford rear to start with. Also, the stock 350 tore up the 10 bolt that is in it on about 225 hp. That was probably a combination of the shift kit and my brother's lead foot, but it still makes me leery of 10 bolts lol. In the end it will come down to what budget allows. I might have to be patient and wait for a good deal.

Those electric dashes are pretty neat. I was thinking of something more along these lines:

http://www.classicdash.com/shopping/...er-Gauges.html

That will get me the dash (current dash is not the SS dash), the gauges, and the wiring harness all in one package. It comes with Auto Meter gauges.

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

That classic dash looks good. Dakota Digital stuff looks like what might have been considered high tech in 1984; never fails to ruin an otherwise nice car (my worthless opinion of course).If money is an issue, you could always do everything else while keeping the rear you have, drive it until it breaks or you have money, then replace it when you do your frame off in a couple years (or whenever). By then you could also save enough to upgrade your suspension as well.

74novacustom

I agree, the Dakota Digital system looks Horrible. You could also keep an eye out for a Stock Chevelle 12bolt, i found one for 100.00 then i just installed a posi and Gears, well i had to grind off the suspension ears and install a spring perches for my Nova. Ive had a 550hp motor with a 250hp Nitrous off the line and this thing still rollin like a champ.

I just like to keep my Chevy, a chevy, i had giving the Ford guys the satisfaction.

LS1-Texan

I've recently been trying to stab the LS1/4L60e into the chevelle. I've had some issues getting it to fit. While I am aware of the oil pan issue, I noticed there were some other areas that may be causing a problem. I've made a short list of things that may be responsible. I was curious which of these is the most likely culprit. We haven't even put the engine mounts on yet and it's still seemingly impossible to get it in there.

1. Chevelle has factory air conditioning. Do I have to relocate it. I noticed the engine bumping it at one point.
2. Do I need to massage the transmission tunnel to get a 4L60e in there? I thought it would just go right in.
3. Do I have to take the F-body exhaust manifolds off for it to go in?

I would prefer to no cut/hammer/drill on the Chevelle unnecessarily, but if there is no choice then I will be out there with a hammer tomorrow.

chuckd71

iTrader: (23)

I think others have left it. Might need to put the engine and trans in separately?
If you read a thread and it says they used a bfh it means they beat the hell out of their trans tunnel with a big ******* hammer. Might work. Personally I'd get a large blunt mallet type thing, but I'm no metallurgy expert.
The manifolds go on after you get the engine in place. At least that's how I've done it.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

You are going to need to introduce the trans tunnel to a large hammer and a lot of force. And it will still be a tight fit.

The stock a/c box can stay if you get a pan that lets you mount the engine close to stock location.

I would remove the exhaust manifolds until the engine is in.

LS1-Texan

My thread has been dead since the end of last summer although I have continued my research and have been saving as much as possible to continue this summer. I have a few developments to share.

First is that I have decided to stick with the 10 bolt instead of going for a Ford 9 inch. Time and money were factors, but I was finally convinced that running 450 hp on street tires shouldn't be too much for a properly set up 10 bolt with an Eaton posi and 3.55 gears. I chose the 3.55 gear because it should (theoretically) put my RPMs @ 70 mph at about 2075 based on an overdrive gear in the 4L60e of 0.696 and a rear tire diameter of 28 inches. I should hear back from the differential shop tomorrow concerning pricing on the new posi unit, ring and pinion, bearings, etc.

Second, I took the stock driveshafts from the Chevelle and donor Camaro to a driveshaft shop to have a new driveshaft made by cutting the Chevelle's shaft down to size and welding the yoke from the camaro's shaft on to match the 4L60e. The drive shaft will be ready and balanced by tomorrow afternoon. The price on the driveshaft is going to be about $115.

Third, I am going to handle the fuel issue by strapping the camaro's gas tank to the inside of the trunk as a temporary fuel cell. This will only be used to sort out the car and will be replaced by a Ricks Hot Rod Shop tank. I know they are expensive, but they seem to be the best choice based on the reviews and comparisons of the other options.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Ricks-Hot-Rod-...oductId=758723

Tomorrow I will begin work on reviving the motor while I wait on my driveshaft and rear end parts. There are a few questions that I have about wire routing and placement of different items in the engine compartment but I will save them for later. I'm sure many of them will sort themselves out as I start organizing and situating things tomorrow. I will however go ahead and ask everyone's opinion on which ceramic coated long tube headers are appropriate for my application. I see that they come in a variety of diameters. I plan on running the engine stock for the most part except for an LS6 intake manifold and perhaps a mild cam upgrade. Thanks guys! I'll post more in the next few days!

LS2GS

Good to hear you are still making progress!

TomM

iTrader: (56)

I am in Baytown. I just completed this swap on my brother's 69 Chevelle. If you would like, I would be glad to share some insight to what you might need. PM me and I'll give you my cell number.

T,

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Glad to see your back on the project.. keep us posted and let us know if you have any problems that we can help out with..

BC

Che70velle

iTrader: (6)

As far as your header question goes, it will kinda depend on which engine mounts you are using. Different headers require different engine mounts. I went with the hooker ceramics. They fit very well, and allowed me to put the engine where I wanted it. I made my own solid engine mounts, which allowed me to place my engine as low and far back as I could. Another reason I went with the hookers, is that they tuck up against the floor, which is a plus if your going to lower your car.

LS1-Texan

To Scott: I'll probably add drop spidles and tubular A-arms in the future. My ground clearance right now looks pretty good, so hopefully the header I get won't hang too low. I'm planning on using BRP Muscle Rod Ceramic long tube 1 3/4" headers. I used the BRP mounting kit and it seems to have placed the engine well, so I'll use the headers designed for the engine/transmission mounts.

I havent had to relocate anything yet although the Evaporator Core Box is either going to need some modification or perhaps I will use the Classic AutoAir kit to remove it from the firewall completely. Here is a link to what I am considering using:

http://www.classicautoair.com/?q=70_..._Chevy_AC.html

I have more pressing issues right now than the A/C system though. I need to chose a radiator and air filter at some point next week as I will be finishing the drivetrain and starting on the engine. Before anyone asks why I did it in that order, I've been doing this project with the help of my dad, who is a very good mechanic, but old age is getting to him. He insisted on going in that order rather than dealing with the engine first. Believe me, I've faught him long and hard on this. At least the drivetrain is out of the way so there are no more excuses lol.