71 Pontiac Lemans
06-18-2014, 08:13 PM
#121
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
oldgoat69: It's a coincidence you ask about the inner door panels from the donor GTO, I just took the donor GTO doors apart. I did play around with seeing if the inner door panels are usable and I do think they could be. I would really like to use them because as you may know the side A/C vents are in the door panel. I also think I may be able to use the window motors from the GTO donor.
sowbelle: It's nice to hear you were inspired by my transmission cross member. That's one reason I am sharing my story.
Another milestone on my project - got some color on some parts. Next stop in the bodywork was replacing the passenger rear quarter. I wanted to have the passenger door installed to check gaps as I fussed with it. To make things more efficient I decided to paint the door jambs, inside of the doors, and the door hinge parts so I wouldn't have to pull them off again later.
First few pictures are the painting. Never done any automotive painting before but I did quite a bit of spray finishing when I had my cabinetmaking business so I knew how to handle a spray gun. It actually went pretty well and I was pleased with the results. Color is Lemans blue as used on some recent GM products such as 2005 Corvette. I used a base coat/clear coat system. Paint is PPG, clear is SPI Universal clear.
I also painted the inside edges of the front fenders so I could install those once and be done:
And the inside of the trunk lid:
Also painted the forward part of the door jamb area:
Hinges were disassembled, sand blasted, primed, painted and then reassembled with new pins and bushings:
Door hinges installed onto doors (I used stainless steel bolts):
Since I work by myself I needed a way to hold the door in place easily while I started the bolts. Here is what I came up with (worked pretty well):
It's slowly starting to look like a complete car. Next up is replacing the passenger quarter panel, aligning the doors, and installing and aligning the front fenders.
sowbelle: It's nice to hear you were inspired by my transmission cross member. That's one reason I am sharing my story.
Another milestone on my project - got some color on some parts. Next stop in the bodywork was replacing the passenger rear quarter. I wanted to have the passenger door installed to check gaps as I fussed with it. To make things more efficient I decided to paint the door jambs, inside of the doors, and the door hinge parts so I wouldn't have to pull them off again later.
First few pictures are the painting. Never done any automotive painting before but I did quite a bit of spray finishing when I had my cabinetmaking business so I knew how to handle a spray gun. It actually went pretty well and I was pleased with the results. Color is Lemans blue as used on some recent GM products such as 2005 Corvette. I used a base coat/clear coat system. Paint is PPG, clear is SPI Universal clear.
I also painted the inside edges of the front fenders so I could install those once and be done:
And the inside of the trunk lid:
Also painted the forward part of the door jamb area:
Hinges were disassembled, sand blasted, primed, painted and then reassembled with new pins and bushings:
Door hinges installed onto doors (I used stainless steel bolts):
Since I work by myself I needed a way to hold the door in place easily while I started the bolts. Here is what I came up with (worked pretty well):
It's slowly starting to look like a complete car. Next up is replacing the passenger quarter panel, aligning the doors, and installing and aligning the front fenders.
06-19-2014, 08:09 AM
#122
TECH Fanatic
Keep me posted on the door panels, I am very interested in how this all works out.
Good job on the engine hoist, I did a frame off on a 65 GTO ragtop many years ago all by myself. You learn to get very creative with no help around. The engine hoist becomes that big friend that can pick up and move anything you ask him to.
I really love the color, good to see that things are moving forward.
Good job on the engine hoist, I did a frame off on a 65 GTO ragtop many years ago all by myself. You learn to get very creative with no help around. The engine hoist becomes that big friend that can pick up and move anything you ask him to.
I really love the color, good to see that things are moving forward.
06-22-2014, 11:54 AM
#123
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My 71 LeMans/GTO/LS2 conversion Sorry it has been so long since I contacted you. I am still trying to figure out how to post some photo's.
I need a favor if possible. I disassembled my convertible frame and did not keep great photos. I am not sure which bolts and shims go where. I have it mounted back in the car but I know some are wrong. If you have any good photos showing the bolts on the frame I would appreciate you posting them.
Thanks in advance.
I am going to try today to figure out how to post my photos. We have the same basic idea, but have taken a lot of different paths to get there. You have been quite creative in your solutions.
I need a favor if possible. I disassembled my convertible frame and did not keep great photos. I am not sure which bolts and shims go where. I have it mounted back in the car but I know some are wrong. If you have any good photos showing the bolts on the frame I would appreciate you posting them.
Thanks in advance.
I am going to try today to figure out how to post my photos. We have the same basic idea, but have taken a lot of different paths to get there. You have been quite creative in your solutions.
09-15-2014, 08:34 PM
#124
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
I am like the turtle in his race with the hare, slowly but surely I am getting there . . .
Now that the passenger door is hung and roughly adjusted I could move on to the replacement of the passenger quarter panel. It had been replaced at least once before by a previous owner, but done very poorly being brazed instead of welded on. It had the usual rust around the wheel well lip and down where it used to attach to the trunk dropoffs. I removed it entirely, an easy job since it was easy to grind through the few brazed "welds". I then sandblasted and finished all the inside areas with epoxy primer.
New replacement quarters are available for sedans but not convertibles. So I had to piece together what I had. Fortunately the top portion of the existing convertible quarter was in pretty good shape, so I sandblasted it inside and out and reattached it with welding. That is the bare metal part of the fender seen in the photos below, the replacement fender is black from the ecoat. This picture shows a trial fitting, one of many.
I decided to attach the new fender with a combination of glueing and welding, similar to what is done with newer cars. Structural adhesive was used along the bottom front where the fender goes on top of the rocker, between the inner and outer fender along the wheel well lip, and behind the bumper cavity. This picture shows clamps being used while the adhesive was curing.
The seam between the existing fender and new fender and along the door jamb was welded and then ground smooth.
The fit along the door was pretty good except for at the top. I welded some 3/16" rod along the door jamb and on top of the fender the close gaps and get body lines to align much better.
Next, a similar effort with the driver's quarter panel.
Now that the passenger door is hung and roughly adjusted I could move on to the replacement of the passenger quarter panel. It had been replaced at least once before by a previous owner, but done very poorly being brazed instead of welded on. It had the usual rust around the wheel well lip and down where it used to attach to the trunk dropoffs. I removed it entirely, an easy job since it was easy to grind through the few brazed "welds". I then sandblasted and finished all the inside areas with epoxy primer.
New replacement quarters are available for sedans but not convertibles. So I had to piece together what I had. Fortunately the top portion of the existing convertible quarter was in pretty good shape, so I sandblasted it inside and out and reattached it with welding. That is the bare metal part of the fender seen in the photos below, the replacement fender is black from the ecoat. This picture shows a trial fitting, one of many.
I decided to attach the new fender with a combination of glueing and welding, similar to what is done with newer cars. Structural adhesive was used along the bottom front where the fender goes on top of the rocker, between the inner and outer fender along the wheel well lip, and behind the bumper cavity. This picture shows clamps being used while the adhesive was curing.
The seam between the existing fender and new fender and along the door jamb was welded and then ground smooth.
The fit along the door was pretty good except for at the top. I welded some 3/16" rod along the door jamb and on top of the fender the close gaps and get body lines to align much better.
Next, a similar effort with the driver's quarter panel.
10-05-2014, 01:02 PM
#125
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
I went ahead and replaced the driver's quarter too. It was original and wasn't as rusted as the botched passenger replacement, but I decided to do the same on both sides, that way the inside of the quarter was sandblasted and primed and I had dealt with the rust as must as possible. But before I could do that I had to install the driver's door.
I figured out a little simpler way of hanging doors than what I used for the passenger side. I took a scrap of 2x4 and screwed a hook into it as shown below.
The 2x4 was inserted inside the door and then the positioned so the hook was pointing up through the window slot. The 2x4 is thicker than the window slot so it's doesn't come out. The engine hoist is then used on the hook and lifts the door easily.
As before the engine hoist then holds the door while the bolts are started through the hinges into the body.
I ended up using this more than once for both doors as I realized I forgot to drill the holes for the door electrical harness to pass through the door jamb on the body into the door. So I used my lifting gadget to lift each door off the body while I drilled the new holes. This shows the area where I drilled the holes, between the hinges.
This is one of the door electrical harnesses from the GTO donor. It conveniently has a disconnect right inside the body door jamb area.
I drilled a series of large holes in the body door jamb area and on the forward part of the door, and then cut out the middle to get the required slots. I finished all cut edges with epoxy primer.
Once the epoxy cured for a day or two in inserted the harness through each slot and snapped the grommets in place. Looks and works just like OEM and I got to use even more parts from the GTO donor.
I figured out a little simpler way of hanging doors than what I used for the passenger side. I took a scrap of 2x4 and screwed a hook into it as shown below.
The 2x4 was inserted inside the door and then the positioned so the hook was pointing up through the window slot. The 2x4 is thicker than the window slot so it's doesn't come out. The engine hoist is then used on the hook and lifts the door easily.
As before the engine hoist then holds the door while the bolts are started through the hinges into the body.
I ended up using this more than once for both doors as I realized I forgot to drill the holes for the door electrical harness to pass through the door jamb on the body into the door. So I used my lifting gadget to lift each door off the body while I drilled the new holes. This shows the area where I drilled the holes, between the hinges.
This is one of the door electrical harnesses from the GTO donor. It conveniently has a disconnect right inside the body door jamb area.
I drilled a series of large holes in the body door jamb area and on the forward part of the door, and then cut out the middle to get the required slots. I finished all cut edges with epoxy primer.
Once the epoxy cured for a day or two in inserted the harness through each slot and snapped the grommets in place. Looks and works just like OEM and I got to use even more parts from the GTO donor.
10-05-2014, 01:35 PM
#126
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
The replacement of the driver's quarter was similar to the passenger quarter except the main cut line on top was lower and I didn't remove the top part of the existing fender.
As before I cut away the existing fender as necessary to remove rust and provide access to the inside of the quarter for sandblasting.
After many trial fittings I had the replacement quarter skin ready to go.
As with the passenger panel I used panel bond along the wheel well lip, along the rocker and near the rear bumper. The two pictures show spreading the panel bond adhesive to both parts.
The skin was put into place for the last time, clamps were used around the wheel lip and rear bumper, pop rivets were used as clamps on top of the rocker inside the quarter cavity.
The seams along forward and top edges of the skin were then butt welded and ground smooth.
As before I cut away the existing fender as necessary to remove rust and provide access to the inside of the quarter for sandblasting.
After many trial fittings I had the replacement quarter skin ready to go.
As with the passenger panel I used panel bond along the wheel well lip, along the rocker and near the rear bumper. The two pictures show spreading the panel bond adhesive to both parts.
The skin was put into place for the last time, clamps were used around the wheel lip and rear bumper, pop rivets were used as clamps on top of the rocker inside the quarter cavity.
The seams along forward and top edges of the skin were then butt welded and ground smooth.
01-13-2015, 07:24 PM
#127
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
Before winter set in here in Ohio I got some bodywork done before my shop got too cold.
Soon after the welds on my replacement quarters were ground down I sprayed two coats of epoxy primer to seal them:
I then followed that with some Duraglass filler to reinforce the welds and fill any pinholes I may have missed:
While I was at it I primed the rear portion of the door jambs and the trunk jambs:
The next day I sprayed base coat and clear on the same two areas:
Since then I have been doing a few small and subtle body mods, I will show those in the next few posts.
Soon after the welds on my replacement quarters were ground down I sprayed two coats of epoxy primer to seal them:
I then followed that with some Duraglass filler to reinforce the welds and fill any pinholes I may have missed:
While I was at it I primed the rear portion of the door jambs and the trunk jambs:
The next day I sprayed base coat and clear on the same two areas:
Since then I have been doing a few small and subtle body mods, I will show those in the next few posts.
01-16-2015, 06:04 AM
#128
TECH Fanatic
Good to see you are back at it! Great progress. Someday I might even do the paint I have been threatening for the last 5 years. Great idea with the panel bond, I never would have considered it, but if it is good enough for aircraft who am I to say otherwise.
04-23-2015, 06:15 PM
#129
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
I just wanted to let everyone know I am selling my unfinished project. I have an ad in the LS1Tech classifieds:
Project for sale
It breaks my heart to sell it but I am moving soon and won't have a good place to work on it anymore. Also, I just don't have the time and money to devote to it. I am hoping someone reading this will decide to take this on and finish what I have started. I need to find a new home for this in the next couple of months so any advice would be appreciated, or if you know someone that might be interested please refer them to my ad.
To those that have responded and commented over the last few years thank you for all the advice and words of encouragement, I have learned a lot and have enjoyed talking and even meeting you. Maybe if circumstances change I will get back to this some day.
Project for sale
It breaks my heart to sell it but I am moving soon and won't have a good place to work on it anymore. Also, I just don't have the time and money to devote to it. I am hoping someone reading this will decide to take this on and finish what I have started. I need to find a new home for this in the next couple of months so any advice would be appreciated, or if you know someone that might be interested please refer them to my ad.
To those that have responded and commented over the last few years thank you for all the advice and words of encouragement, I have learned a lot and have enjoyed talking and even meeting you. Maybe if circumstances change I will get back to this some day.
Last edited by fsdproject; 04-23-2015 at 06:29 PM. Reason: spelling
04-24-2015, 12:16 PM
#131
Ouch... Man that stinks! Sorry to hear that! I just found this thread and was thoroughly enjoying it. You were doing a good job, and I loved the blending of new and old parts.
I hope someone takes it off your hands and finishes it up! I was looking forward to seeing this car finished.
Justin
I hope someone takes it off your hands and finishes it up! I was looking forward to seeing this car finished.
Justin
05-06-2015, 09:19 PM
#132
Staging Lane
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Man what a very interesting build! I seen the ad on craigslist and came over to read the build. It's like watching a film and you already know the end but not sure when its coming. I would love to come finish this car (im in Lima) but my wife would be a tough sell to take the 2nd spot in our garage before our shop is built. Bad timing for me, but good luck!
05-23-2015, 10:11 PM
#133
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Deconstruction started as soon as we got it home. I took the advice of others and tagged and bagged removed parts and took pictures as much as possible.
Since it's a convertible I added bracing to the interior to keep it folding up like a taco while it was off the frame. Since my welding skills were zero at that point and steel can be a little pricey I looked for materials that might work and come upon electrical conduit which is relatively cheap and easy to work with. I attached these to the car and to each other with 5/16" bolts. I tried to triangulate the bracing as much as possible to keep the body from flexing too much, it seemed to work really well and kept it rigid for months.
With that done I was ready to remove the body. Removing the body bolts proved to be quite the chore due to rust, I think only one or two came out without damage. Some snapped in the middle, some the welded cage broke off. Those bolts I wasn't able to get off I just cut through. I tried soaking them with PB blaster without much luck. Several of them had rusted to the point they were less than half their original diameter. Once the body bolts were out it was a slow and careful process using wood and concrete blocks and a floor jack to raise the body high enough to roll the frame out.
To sandblast the frame and keep the mess outside I rolled it outside in front of my shop. I bought an Eastwood blaster which I was very happy with. The seller of the car also sold me his old 80 gallon air compressor which was very helpful supplying the large quantities or air required by the blaster.
The frame was in pretty good shape, mostly surface rust with the exception of some rusting out around three body mount holes. I fixed that with the repair "washers" some of the restoration companies sell.
To finish the blasting I removed all of the suspension, brakes, steering, and remaining hardware and tubing. To refinish the frame I used all Eastwood products; Rust Convertor first, then Rust Encapsulator, then two coats of epoxy primer and two coats of their epoxy chassis paint. Internal Frame Coating was sprayed on the inside of the frame. This picture shows the frame refinished and the caster supports I made to make moving the bare frame around easier.
Since it's a convertible I added bracing to the interior to keep it folding up like a taco while it was off the frame. Since my welding skills were zero at that point and steel can be a little pricey I looked for materials that might work and come upon electrical conduit which is relatively cheap and easy to work with. I attached these to the car and to each other with 5/16" bolts. I tried to triangulate the bracing as much as possible to keep the body from flexing too much, it seemed to work really well and kept it rigid for months.
With that done I was ready to remove the body. Removing the body bolts proved to be quite the chore due to rust, I think only one or two came out without damage. Some snapped in the middle, some the welded cage broke off. Those bolts I wasn't able to get off I just cut through. I tried soaking them with PB blaster without much luck. Several of them had rusted to the point they were less than half their original diameter. Once the body bolts were out it was a slow and careful process using wood and concrete blocks and a floor jack to raise the body high enough to roll the frame out.
To sandblast the frame and keep the mess outside I rolled it outside in front of my shop. I bought an Eastwood blaster which I was very happy with. The seller of the car also sold me his old 80 gallon air compressor which was very helpful supplying the large quantities or air required by the blaster.
The frame was in pretty good shape, mostly surface rust with the exception of some rusting out around three body mount holes. I fixed that with the repair "washers" some of the restoration companies sell.
To finish the blasting I removed all of the suspension, brakes, steering, and remaining hardware and tubing. To refinish the frame I used all Eastwood products; Rust Convertor first, then Rust Encapsulator, then two coats of epoxy primer and two coats of their epoxy chassis paint. Internal Frame Coating was sprayed on the inside of the frame. This picture shows the frame refinished and the caster supports I made to make moving the bare frame around easier.
Fred
