Starting from scratch - which option to go, OEM or megasquirt ?
10-11-2016, 08:37 PM
#1
Starting from scratch - which option to go, OEM or megasquirt ? Hi guys,
I have a 1999 6.0 with l92 heads and a tsp 225/230/110. It's going into my 73 camaro. It will be mated to a richmond/tex racing super t10. I currently do not have an intake manifold and I have no other LS parts besides truck accessories. The car has no fuel system. I originally wanted to carb the car but comparing prices, benefits and how much I can learn, I have decided to go the fuel injection route. I am weighing the benefits of a stand alone system and a regular gm system. Can you guys help me choose the right path ? Budget is a major concern. I originally budgeted around $1000 for carb stuff, and would love to do the EFI setup for around $1500 less the fuel system. I have no EFI tuning experience but lots of car experience in general and just restored the entire car myself. I build control systems for a living and can learn most aspects of electromechanical systems very well so I am confident I can learn to tune the car.
I will run an LS3 manifold, cable throttle body, and ls3 injectors (can I squeak by with these?). I will likely use the LS3 map. I have not researched a MAF sensor and am unsure what to get in regards to one.
My first option is a friends 2000 trans am manual transmission harness, stock 2000 LS1 computer. I would use another friends extra HP tuners credits to tune this. I would have to buy the OBD cable. I like this option because it is inexpensive and tried and true. I am not sure about analog inputs for this setup however. I would love to have the power to use a clutch trigger to set rev limiters.
My second option is a mega squirt or micro squirt. The plug-n-play microsquirt (referred to as MS from here on out) is very reasonably priced, and the base model MS is even cheaper. The MS route looks to be the route less taken however. I like the fact that I know a lot more about what's happening with this system in a sense. I feel like the MS will be more easily controllable.
Can you please comment on my options and which one you think may suit me best?
I have a 1999 6.0 with l92 heads and a tsp 225/230/110. It's going into my 73 camaro. It will be mated to a richmond/tex racing super t10. I currently do not have an intake manifold and I have no other LS parts besides truck accessories. The car has no fuel system. I originally wanted to carb the car but comparing prices, benefits and how much I can learn, I have decided to go the fuel injection route. I am weighing the benefits of a stand alone system and a regular gm system. Can you guys help me choose the right path ? Budget is a major concern. I originally budgeted around $1000 for carb stuff, and would love to do the EFI setup for around $1500 less the fuel system. I have no EFI tuning experience but lots of car experience in general and just restored the entire car myself. I build control systems for a living and can learn most aspects of electromechanical systems very well so I am confident I can learn to tune the car.
I will run an LS3 manifold, cable throttle body, and ls3 injectors (can I squeak by with these?). I will likely use the LS3 map. I have not researched a MAF sensor and am unsure what to get in regards to one.
My first option is a friends 2000 trans am manual transmission harness, stock 2000 LS1 computer. I would use another friends extra HP tuners credits to tune this. I would have to buy the OBD cable. I like this option because it is inexpensive and tried and true. I am not sure about analog inputs for this setup however. I would love to have the power to use a clutch trigger to set rev limiters.
My second option is a mega squirt or micro squirt. The plug-n-play microsquirt (referred to as MS from here on out) is very reasonably priced, and the base model MS is even cheaper. The MS route looks to be the route less taken however. I like the fact that I know a lot more about what's happening with this system in a sense. I feel like the MS will be more easily controllable.
Can you please comment on my options and which one you think may suit me best?
10-12-2016, 08:26 AM
#3
Which way I second the Megasquirt. Lots to learn with fuel injection and this seem like drinking from a firehose at first but things will finally start to fall into place and you will feel confident with f.i. Don't forget the tuning programs are free and there is unlimited help there.
10-12-2016, 08:41 AM
#4
Restricted User
Megasquirt.
Save a few bucks and get the base micro setup with generic harness for $390.
I bought a DBW harness on craigslist that someone was going to throw out for $20, and spend another $6 on a TPS connector. Ended up about $425 after fuses/relays for a full stand-alone microsquirt.
The auto-tuning features makes it a little easier for first timers.
Save a few bucks and get the base micro setup with generic harness for $390.
I bought a DBW harness on craigslist that someone was going to throw out for $20, and spend another $6 on a TPS connector. Ended up about $425 after fuses/relays for a full stand-alone microsquirt.
The auto-tuning features makes it a little easier for first timers.
10-12-2016, 09:38 AM
#5
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How much stock style driveability/user friendliness are you looking to retain ? Like perfect cold starts etc.
When you buy a megasquirt, be sure to ask which of the many firmwares the vendor recommends for your app. Did you want stock GM IAC motor control ? Do you want sequential injection? COP functionality ? Avoid the microsquirt then. Funny how guys never mention that.
If you already have access to a "free" HP tuners usage, Then you may be well ahead to use a stock GM harness/411 computer (like your friends 2000 unit) . You will need to rework the harness for your app, But Its apparently no sweat for a guy with some skills.
When you buy a megasquirt, be sure to ask which of the many firmwares the vendor recommends for your app. Did you want stock GM IAC motor control ? Do you want sequential injection? COP functionality ? Avoid the microsquirt then. Funny how guys never mention that.
If you already have access to a "free" HP tuners usage, Then you may be well ahead to use a stock GM harness/411 computer (like your friends 2000 unit) . You will need to rework the harness for your app, But Its apparently no sweat for a guy with some skills.
10-12-2016, 10:03 AM
#6
Restricted User
Did you want stock GM IAC motor control ? Do you want sequential injection? COP functionality ? Avoid the microsquirt then. Funny how guys never mention that.
If you already have access to a "free" HP tuners usage, Then you may be well ahead to use a stock GM harness/411 computer (like your friends 2000 unit) . You will need to rework the harness for your app, But Its apparently no sweat for a guy with some skills.
If you already have access to a "free" HP tuners usage, Then you may be well ahead to use a stock GM harness/411 computer (like your friends 2000 unit) . You will need to rework the harness for your app, But Its apparently no sweat for a guy with some skills.
For the price of plug and play micro, you can upgrade to MS3x if you build the harness the way I mentioned doing before. You regain full sequential control, IAC control, and dozens of features the stock ECU could never dream of.
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10-12-2016, 12:43 PM
#10
Gentlemen,
You are a wealth of knowledge. The car will be a summer only car. The gm ecu definately seems to be the route more taken. Is that only because people dont want to rewire their cars?
Regarding the ms setup, if i buy a plug n play microsquirt from a vendor, what is involved in getting the car running? Is the setup of the ms simple? Essentially to get the car from plugging in the microsquirt to running and tuning is it a giant leap, how is the ms software for tuning vs hp tuners?
You are a wealth of knowledge. The car will be a summer only car. The gm ecu definately seems to be the route more taken. Is that only because people dont want to rewire their cars?
Regarding the ms setup, if i buy a plug n play microsquirt from a vendor, what is involved in getting the car running? Is the setup of the ms simple? Essentially to get the car from plugging in the microsquirt to running and tuning is it a giant leap, how is the ms software for tuning vs hp tuners?
10-12-2016, 01:27 PM
#11
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I think one reason the OEM ECM is commonly used is for auto trans apps with the 4l60/80. The GM unit does this natively, HP Tuners tunes it, whereas the aftermarket units require multiple boxes and wiring (the Holley Dom unit does it natively too at $2000.) Plus, Its common to get the ECU and harness included with a pull-out junkyard engine.
Pretty much you are going to have to rewire a lot of things anyway in any swap situation, so thats a wash.
As HDevils said, the stock LS3 injectors should be fine, The math says they are good for 600+ FWHP.
Pretty much you are going to have to rewire a lot of things anyway in any swap situation, so thats a wash.
As HDevils said, the stock LS3 injectors should be fine, The math says they are good for 600+ FWHP.
10-12-2016, 08:19 PM
#14
Thanks guys this is great info, I think I'm sold on the MS. I'm still going to buy a GM harness to cut up for the plugs. Moving on now, microsquirt vs. megasquirt, what is the advantage of mega? Mega can control an IAC which isn't a huge deal to me because it seems an ls can idle fine without one, what else can the mega do that the micro can't ? I know with micro I would have to run wasted spark and non sequential injection which again, not a big deal to me. Main thing I am looking for is tunability and the ability to add analog inputs. Can you guys enlighten me ? I appreciate all your advice very much.
10-12-2016, 08:41 PM
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If you are handy with electronics and soldering, You may want to consider the you-build MS2 kit. Putting it together will give you a valuable insight to how it works. And you can customize it to your situation as you go.
10-12-2016, 08:53 PM
#16
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EFI Source has a IAC box... http://www.efisource.com/shop/micros...epper-adapter/
for extra $60 you can add IAC to the Microsquirt and your set. this is my plan currently. i have a factory ecu/harness to mess with (and i might later too), but think im going to go with MS. i would like a cold start idle, most dont seem to have issue without it though.
for extra $60 you can add IAC to the Microsquirt and your set. this is my plan currently. i have a factory ecu/harness to mess with (and i might later too), but think im going to go with MS. i would like a cold start idle, most dont seem to have issue without it though.
10-12-2016, 10:02 PM
#17
10-12-2016, 10:18 PM
#18
i have 2 HPtuners tuned swapped vehicles. If i could go back and do it again, i'd use MS. especially now the new gold box can mount a 4l80e controller directly in the box. traction control, electronic boost control ....all the good stuff is already included.
10-12-2016, 11:32 PM
#19
Megasquirt Several years ago I got interested in Megasquirt and ordered a M/S II kit. I dumped it out and fear hit me. Bag upon bag of colorful little parts with wires sticking out the ends. Just working a little each night I had it all together and tested within 4 days. Talk about a fun project. It will also control a IAC, batch fire (not much difference) and spark. Finally got to test it on an LT1 engine. Fired right up and was tuning just fine but no coolant so had to stop. Oh, I'm in my 70s and never had anything to do with electronics before.