Evoluseis

Hello Community!

I'm a beginner car enthusiast and would like to pursue an LS swap for my Porsche 944.
Here's some things I'd like ya'll to note:

• Budget is ~$2,000 USD
• Putting into a Porsche 944 S
• Beginner (I haven't done an engine swap before)

Here's what I hope to accomplish from the project:

• Make 300 KW (about 400 hp) from the engine
• Upgrade internals (whatever is needed for future 500 KW)
• Upgrade cams and injectors.
• Create a new daily driver

My Questions:

• Should I build an engine from the block up? I was thinking of starting with a LR4 (4.8 liter, 3.780" bore)
  • Is that a good choice?
  • Would getting a lower displacement block be beneficial for fuel economy?
• If I build an engine from the block up, what parts do I need to get it running?
• Is there something I can reference (step-by-step) for assembling it?

Appreciate opinions and assistance!

pdxmotorhead

Sounds like you first need to spend a bunch of time reading the build threads,, sort out the BS from the good stuff,, don't take anything as gospel..

2K Budget means google some on "Sloppy ls build"

The 944 has been done there are several threads about it..

Engine swaps always take longer than you think,, especially the first one..

Chrenan

Sparkydog

Evoluseis

Thanks for your reply!

In your build it looks like you sourced a relatively assembled engine. Do you recommend I do this as well (given that I'm a beginner)?
If I build from scratch what's the part list I'm looking at? And will any parts need to be modified in specialized shops for my use?

243

Engine building and engine swapping are two different ventures and since you have not done either and neither had I forty years ago, I suggest starting with the swap.

Consider buying a COMPLETE engine and trans unless you are planning to use the Porsche trans, as cheaply as possible. Even a 200K mile 4.8 that is running and driving for 750.00 and not bleeding oil or puking smoke out of the tailpipe is perfect.

As suggested above, read the build threads specific to 944's and drop the donor into your Porsche. Have fun, learn from the venture, it will be great accomplishment and then you can find another donor or bare block and build your 400hp LS at the same time you are enjoying your ride.

Once it's built, one weekend for the swap and you are back in business!

Edit: after scanning Chrenan's build I bet 2K would be light on the specialty parts for the swap not including the engine, and it would probably take more than a weekend to replace the donor with your new engine

Evoluseis

Thanks for the advice! I really appreciate it.

That's a good thing to note. The distinguishing between building and swapping. I believe you're right that it's quite the project to undergo. I'm just worried that an older block might not get me my power figures and reliability.

What should I look out for when sourcing an already assembled engine? What type should I be looking for to fit well into a 944? Is there any specific details to test for to ensure an engine is in good condition?

Michael Yount

iTrader: (1)

Had to open this up. As a multiple-time former Porsche owner, I've never seen the words "budget" and "Porsche" used in the same sentence! Good luck on hitting the goal - there are plenty of folks on here who can guide you.

Evoluseis

Haha yeah, I realize it's a lot to get into. I'm unfortunately limited on funds as I'm a uni-student. I've have some elbow room though. Do you have any recommendations or pointers for my swap? I'm gonna try buying one already assembled. That seems to be the logical choice here.

Thanks!

Michael Yount

iTrader: (1)

First - talk to Chrenan up above -- he's done this and knows what he's talking about.

Second - I can't see how you're gonna do it at your price point. Especially if it's your first swap. I'd say you need more $ and some friends experienced with swaps/fabrication to offer assistance.

Third - spent some time on the Renegade Hybrid site -- as you can see, unless you source/fabricate all this yourself, you can't even buy the basic swap kit within your budget. http://www.renegadehybrids.com/

Fourth - spend some time with the V8 Porschephiles understanding what the limitations of the stock 944 transaxle are -- lots of folks upgrade the 944 Turbos because the transaxle/brakes/suspension is already up to the task of dealing with the additional torque/power of the V8.

Basic Parts List

Here are the LS Series kit prices as well as the options list. For further clarification or additional question, you are welcome to call us at (702) 739-8011 or e-mail us at info@renegadehybrids.com. Thank you for your interest in our newest line of Porsche 944 to Chevy conversion kits.---Renegade custom adapter-bellhousing complete and pre assembled with hydraulic throw out bearing, custom hydraulic hose and fittings, and mounting hardware.---Custom 12 inch LS Series clutch disc with Porsche center spline.---Renegade motor mount kit complete with uprights, billet block plates, rubber isolators, and hardware.---Renegade custom LS Series road-race oil pan with windage tray and spring-loaded trap doors for proper oil delivery.---LS Series remote oil filter mount.---Renegade cross member and sway bar drop kit.---Custom 944 to LS Series pilot bearing.---Renegade brake master cylinder mount and pushrod.---Custom ignition coil mount bracket.---Custom bleeder valve with extended SS line.$2,200Complete LS Series kit for 924S, 944, 951 and 968 Porsches, hardware and instructions. For design and application purposes, parts will not be sold separately.Optional Parts$995RENEGADE 944 TO LS Series COMPLETE COOLING SYSTEM: Including high efficiency custom radiator, HP puller fan and mounts, thermostatic control switch, 30 amp relay, and pre-wired harness, assembled and ready for installation in the stock 944 radiator location.$849RENEGADE CUSTOM BUILT LS Series HIGH FLOW HEADERS: With 1¾-inch primaries and 3-inch collectors. ( picture )$200CERAMIC HEADER COATING: High temperature polished coating inside and out.$245CUSTOM REMOTE FILTER OIL LINES: One pair with all needed fittings.$25COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENDING UNIT: To work with your stock factory gauge and install in your LS V8.$65OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT: To work with your stock factory gauge and install in your LS V8.$35CUSTOM OIL PRESSURE SENDING UNIT ADAPTER$355KEVLAR HIGH PERFORMANCE CLUTCH DISC UPGRADE: $100 added to upgrade stock disc included with basic conversion kit. Must be ordered with our Stage Two pressure plate.$490STOCK 12" GENUINE GM FLYWHEEL AND PRESSURE PLATE$335HIGH PERFORMANCE STAGE-TWO YELLOW PRESSURE PLATE$245LS Series CUSTOM FUEL REGULATOR/FILTER/RETURN COMPLETE KIT: With correct fittings for your Porsche stock fuel lines.$140 / pr.ENERGY SUSPENSION MOTOR MOUNT UPGRADE: Plus mount modification. $90 added to upgrade stock mounts included with basic conversion kit.$200 / pr.CUSTOM BUILT POWER STEERING LINES: Cores required. (need both pressure and return off of the rack(Porsche) and power steering pump pressure side fitting(GM))$240STOCK GENUINE GM LS Series CAMARO STARTER: New$285LS Series/LT-1 CUSTOM CV/TRANSAXLE MOUNTED SPEED SENSOR KIT: With reluctor ring and GM speed sensor.$29LS Series/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE THROTTLE BODY INTAKE BOOT: 4 inch to 3.5 inch.$29LS Series/LT-1 RIGHT ANGLE INTAKE BOOT: 3.5 inch to 3.5 inch.$20 ft.LS Series/LT-1 ALUMINUM 3.5" INTAKE TUBING$85LS Series TO 944 CUSTOM THROTTLE CABLE$29HEATER CONTROL H VALVE: The LS Series heater return loop must remain intact for the required bypass system designed into the motor. If you plan to run a heater, this type of H valve is required.$125LS Series/LT-1 OPTIMA BILLET BATTERY TRAY: For cell relocation.

Chrenan

G Atsma

$2000 budget + Porsche 944(or ANY German car) swap project = no go, unfortunately, especially if you have to source a 944 Turbo transaxle, which you MUST have to live behind an LS.

Michael Yount

iTrader: (1)

Think I've seen some sub-$2k E36 swaps. But somehow, sloppy and German don't go together. Well, I'm incapable of sloppy.

TipsyMcStagger

iTrader: (1)

I won't say $2K is impossible but it surely seems improbable.

One thing I've noticed is that some people have loose interpretations of what it means to complete a swap. The younger crowd often forgo nearly every ancillary system (heat, A/C, ABS, PS, etc.) and simply make the car move under its own power and call it a completed swap.

But the more you pay attention to the little things, the more the little things add up.

Good luck!

BMR Tech2

iTrader: (5)

I hope I don't rain on your parade, but

$2000 Budget - Ouch You need to source an Alum LS ( Iron is Cheap, Alum not so much) & conversion pieces

944S - you are going to need a tougher transaxle/diff (the diff rebuild in my Turbo unit was $3500)

Beginner - well you have to start somewhere. However you said that you don't have unlimited funds & it will be a daily driver, Porsche bits will drive you to the poor house, so get used to looking on the Facebook parts pages

87944turbo

I'm currently working on completing a LS1 swap into my 1987 944 turbo. Everything said above is true. There really isn't a way to do it cheaply and correctly (and safely!) unfortunately. One thing I would mention, is that with a projected 400hp, you will find that your brakes and suspension are seriously inadequate (assuming they are stock pieces on your 944 S). They were simply not designed with that kind of power in mind.

You could easily spend $2K just getting the rest of the car to point it should be before you even start thinking about the engine. Please don't take it the wrong way. I've owned and tracked my car for 14 years and know what it costs.

That said, you could have a very capable car running a 4.8 on a reasonable budget. Figure out the swap on your car with that motor and keep the power at a reasonable level. You would learn so much about these engines and making them work in your car. And then you could plan and build your dream engine on the side. All the while picking up the brake and suspension bits at good prices as your budge allows. Just my 2 cents.

Be sure to check out http://944hybrids.forumotion.com/. Also, there is a Wiki with lots of good information here... http://944hybrids.pbworks.com/w/page/1147189/FrontPage There is also a 125 page book out there for swapping these engines into a 944.

Michael Yount

iTrader: (1)

Yeah - I suspected he would outrun his entire budget by a good margin just trying to deal with the rest of the driveline.

Evoluseis

Thank you all for your replies and continuing advice.

Here's a few things I'd also like to bring into consideration:

I actually have around ~$7,000 USD to put the whole project together. Although, I was hoping to save whatever leftovers I have from the engine swap for; like mentioned: the suspension, brakes, and tires.
Would there be an easier engine to swap into this car? If not, which ls engine specifically should I use?

And on the complete flip-side, would there be a better car to start with around my budget for making around 400 hp (as sort of a last resort)? I'm trying to have a good car setup this winter to replace my current daily.

What would you recommend @87944turbo?

G Atsma

It's not so much about which LS engine to use, considering your budget parameters, it's more about which car to put that LS in.
ANY powerful V8 is going to require HUGE mods to any car that started with around 200HP.. And dealing with a Porsche means HUGE $$$ going in when modding it.

87944turbo