California Erod Install
03-07-2019, 10:07 AM
#1
California Erod Install Hello all,
I am wondering if anyone has installed an LS 3 6.2 Erod Being in Calif I have no other legal choices but this engine or rebuild my 305 with the same choked out emissions system, IM not complaining about the only choice I think its a perfect engine for the swap I'm putting it in A 1986 C 10, I'm happy GMPP went to the trouble for me to have this option. I'm wondering has anyone done this swap or similar? What were your challenges where there fitment issues? Are you in Calif did you go through the Bureau of Automotive Repair to sign off How was that were there any issued with the regulators? I have removed my old engine tranny and computer the wiring is going to be my biggest challenge like figuring out what wires I need to remove from the trucks harness if any, I removed the engine harness with the computer. I have the new engine in my shop now the bed and front clip removed cleaning up the frame rear-end and front cross member and should be starting the process of install this weekend. Ill post a few pics later today.
thanks
I am wondering if anyone has installed an LS 3 6.2 Erod Being in Calif I have no other legal choices but this engine or rebuild my 305 with the same choked out emissions system, IM not complaining about the only choice I think its a perfect engine for the swap I'm putting it in A 1986 C 10, I'm happy GMPP went to the trouble for me to have this option. I'm wondering has anyone done this swap or similar? What were your challenges where there fitment issues? Are you in Calif did you go through the Bureau of Automotive Repair to sign off How was that were there any issued with the regulators? I have removed my old engine tranny and computer the wiring is going to be my biggest challenge like figuring out what wires I need to remove from the trucks harness if any, I removed the engine harness with the computer. I have the new engine in my shop now the bed and front clip removed cleaning up the frame rear-end and front cross member and should be starting the process of install this weekend. Ill post a few pics later today.
thanks
03-07-2019, 08:55 PM
#2
TECH Fanatic
There are very few stock wires in your 86 C10 wiring harness that will be usable except for power - keyed and full time 12 volts. You have some choices here but if I was you, I'd buy the companion GMPP wiring harness for the engine rather than pull a wiring harness from a modern, late model wrecked LS engine-equipped vehicle and then having to adapt it to your GMPP crate engine.
Engine wiring is easy because there's only four wires that need any adaptation or hook up by you. Yes, only four.
1 - Full time 12 volts to the PCM to retain learned parameters in the PCM memory.
2 - Keyed ignition 12 volt power that actually boots up the PCM for operation. Needs to have 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
3 - Power to the electric fuel pump to deliver 58-60 PSI to the fuel rail. Needs 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
4 - 12 volts to the starter solenoid when cranking.
All other engine connectors need to be in place but this is easy because of the shapes in the male and female connectors.
Engine mounts? I went with Holley but there are plenty of others. This will dictate good or bad driveline angles down the drive shaft towards the differential.
What transmission? Possible transmission control module computer required here.
What trans crossmember?
Drive shaft length? Possible yoke change.
Possibly electric fans behind the radiator?
Where do you want to mount the PCM?
I can think of other things depending on your answers here.
Rick
Engine wiring is easy because there's only four wires that need any adaptation or hook up by you. Yes, only four.
1 - Full time 12 volts to the PCM to retain learned parameters in the PCM memory.
2 - Keyed ignition 12 volt power that actually boots up the PCM for operation. Needs to have 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
3 - Power to the electric fuel pump to deliver 58-60 PSI to the fuel rail. Needs 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
4 - 12 volts to the starter solenoid when cranking.
All other engine connectors need to be in place but this is easy because of the shapes in the male and female connectors.
Engine mounts? I went with Holley but there are plenty of others. This will dictate good or bad driveline angles down the drive shaft towards the differential.
What transmission? Possible transmission control module computer required here.
What trans crossmember?
Drive shaft length? Possible yoke change.
Possibly electric fans behind the radiator?
Where do you want to mount the PCM?
I can think of other things depending on your answers here.
Rick
03-07-2019, 10:23 PM
#3
d Thanks for your input Rick " B52 bombardier"
I may not have been clear, the Erod package comes with the engines and trans wiring harness's, each main branch is labeled with connectors for the sensors so I will not need any additional wiring harness, the engine/ transmission I picked are GMPP connect and cruise package LS 3 6.2 with a 4L65E transmission and controllers, I took time today to review all sensor locations and have a good since where the Control Module will land, under my dash above the glove box, this works well because that's where the original ECM was that I removed, my concerns are not with engine wiring but with existing truck wiring headlights blinkers tail lights ect, it appears that most of this wiring if not all are within a separate electrical wiring harness and left undisturbed after the original engine wiring harness and controller were removed. but its difficult for me to validate this thought because it looks like a maize of wiring that goes everywhere, the four connections you mentioned that make this run are great advice and I have determined that the constant 12 volts will be directly from the Battery , the keyed will come from the original keyed ignition system the fuel pump and cooling fans have relays already built in the harness and these are straight connections and the starter like the original will come from the battery. I went with Dirty Dingo sliders for the engine and trans mounts Im hoping they maintain the right driveline angles everything I have read about them was good, I don't know my driveline length just yet but with a little luck I should install the engine and trans so I can get that measurement after I check the driveline angle. Rick what did you install in, did you keep your original gauges? if yes did you use bushings to run your existing senders or buy senders with the metric pitch ad thread that will operate the existing gauges? there's so much more I could ask but will stop for now, oh I forgot to take the photos I will tomorrow
OOPS.
Rod
There are very few stock wires in your 86 C10 wiring harness that will be usable except for power - keyed and full time 12 volts. You have some choices here but if I was you, I'd buy the companion GMPP wiring harness for the engine rather than pull a wiring harness from a modern, late model wrecked LS engine-equipped vehicle and then having to adapt it to your GMPP crate engine.
Engine wiring is easy because there's only four wires that need any adaptation or hook up by you. Yes, only four.
1 - Full time 12 volts to the PCM to retain learned parameters in the PCM memory.
2 - Keyed ignition 12 volt power that actually boots up the PCM for operation. Needs to have 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
3 - Power to the electric fuel pump to deliver 58-60 PSI to the fuel rail. Needs 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
4 - 12 volts to the starter solenoid when cranking.
All other engine connectors need to be in place but this is easy because of the shapes in the male and female connectors.
Engine mounts? I went with Holley but there are plenty of others. This will dictate good or bad driveline angles down the drive shaft towards the differential.
What transmission? Possible transmission control module computer required here.
What trans crossmember?
Drive shaft length? Possible yoke change.
Possibly electric fans behind the radiator?
Where do you want to mount the PCM?
I can think of other things depending on your answers here.
Rick
Engine wiring is easy because there's only four wires that need any adaptation or hook up by you. Yes, only four.
1 - Full time 12 volts to the PCM to retain learned parameters in the PCM memory.
2 - Keyed ignition 12 volt power that actually boots up the PCM for operation. Needs to have 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
3 - Power to the electric fuel pump to deliver 58-60 PSI to the fuel rail. Needs 12 volts while cranking and thereafter.
4 - 12 volts to the starter solenoid when cranking.
All other engine connectors need to be in place but this is easy because of the shapes in the male and female connectors.
Engine mounts? I went with Holley but there are plenty of others. This will dictate good or bad driveline angles down the drive shaft towards the differential.
What transmission? Possible transmission control module computer required here.
What trans crossmember?
Drive shaft length? Possible yoke change.
Possibly electric fans behind the radiator?
Where do you want to mount the PCM?
I can think of other things depending on your answers here.
Rick
I may not have been clear, the Erod package comes with the engines and trans wiring harness's, each main branch is labeled with connectors for the sensors so I will not need any additional wiring harness, the engine/ transmission I picked are GMPP connect and cruise package LS 3 6.2 with a 4L65E transmission and controllers, I took time today to review all sensor locations and have a good since where the Control Module will land, under my dash above the glove box, this works well because that's where the original ECM was that I removed, my concerns are not with engine wiring but with existing truck wiring headlights blinkers tail lights ect, it appears that most of this wiring if not all are within a separate electrical wiring harness and left undisturbed after the original engine wiring harness and controller were removed. but its difficult for me to validate this thought because it looks like a maize of wiring that goes everywhere, the four connections you mentioned that make this run are great advice and I have determined that the constant 12 volts will be directly from the Battery , the keyed will come from the original keyed ignition system the fuel pump and cooling fans have relays already built in the harness and these are straight connections and the starter like the original will come from the battery. I went with Dirty Dingo sliders for the engine and trans mounts Im hoping they maintain the right driveline angles everything I have read about them was good, I don't know my driveline length just yet but with a little luck I should install the engine and trans so I can get that measurement after I check the driveline angle. Rick what did you install in, did you keep your original gauges? if yes did you use bushings to run your existing senders or buy senders with the metric pitch ad thread that will operate the existing gauges? there's so much more I could ask but will stop for now, oh I forgot to take the photos I will tomorrow
OOPS.
Rod
03-08-2019, 06:58 AM
#4
TECH Fanatic
My LS went into a 1970 Chevy El Camino. Given the age of the original 1970 body wiring, I went with an all new body wiring harness from American Auto Wire (AAW) - a "Classic Update" model harness. I took my time with this harness for the installation and soldered every connector to its wire - installing and testing for success before moving on. I would give the AAW harness an A minus for ease of installation because every wire is labeled into the insulation along the length of the wire. Their fuse block fit my firewall perfectly and their wiring diagrams are for the most part, quite clear. My only difficulty was with the hazard flashers. Their tech support help desk was very helpful for the 2-3 times I had to call them. I also went through four headlight switches to find one that worked - two bad electrically, one that would not "grab" the **** shaft.
For gauges, I jettisoned my original non SS sweep style of dashboard into a heap on the shop floor and went with SS gauges from Dakota Digital - model HDX. No complaints and also an A minus on ease of installation. Also great tech support.
Rick
For gauges, I jettisoned my original non SS sweep style of dashboard into a heap on the shop floor and went with SS gauges from Dakota Digital - model HDX. No complaints and also an A minus on ease of installation. Also great tech support.
Rick
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03-12-2019, 01:01 AM
#13
So thanks B 52,
it has been a challenge to get something posted with pictures at least one at a time with no text get my promise fulfilled, I'm still wondering if anyone knows if there is any wiring in the trucks harness that needs to be removed, I am a 1 owner f this truck and never had any wiring problems and besides Id mess the harness swap up more than I am now almost guaranteed. I also decided to try and save and use my factory gauges, running Speed box for the Speedo, install a block plate with 1/8 taps for the oil sender and got a 12X1.5x 3/8 NPT adaptor for the passenger side water temp sensor. if anyone has thoughts on my heading id love to get your input. ill put up more pics next week when I have time to get the engine in...
it has been a challenge to get something posted with pictures at least one at a time with no text get my promise fulfilled, I'm still wondering if anyone knows if there is any wiring in the trucks harness that needs to be removed, I am a 1 owner f this truck and never had any wiring problems and besides Id mess the harness swap up more than I am now almost guaranteed. I also decided to try and save and use my factory gauges, running Speed box for the Speedo, install a block plate with 1/8 taps for the oil sender and got a 12X1.5x 3/8 NPT adaptor for the passenger side water temp sensor. if anyone has thoughts on my heading id love to get your input. ill put up more pics next week when I have time to get the engine in...
03-12-2019, 08:50 AM
#14
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
Good choice, I’ve thought about doing this and always wondered what CA. wants to see in terms of fuel tank, LDP pump, cats, any evap canister and hoses to and from. Is it true eRod get sold in various ways, like with catted down pipes and without?
03-12-2019, 10:21 PM
#15
So I have gone down the eRod path here in CA a couple times now. If you plan things out, it really is a nice way to get an LS swap done and not be worried about smog, etc. Here are a couple things that I have learned.
Getting the manifolds and cats that come with the motor to fit into your application is the biggest hurdle of the whole thing. In talking with a state ref, you cannot modify the cats at all, even if it is to fit the chassis. What I have heard of some people doing is using a factory manifold and cat from a different application, like a Silverado, to get things to fit. I can't guarantee that will pass though.
From what I have heard, with the CARB sticker that comes with the engine, you "should" be able to go to any smog station and get the car smogged without going to a state ref first. As long as the car meets the requirements of the EO number, you shouldn't need to go to the BAR. Now, the two times I have dealt with eRod motors, we went to the BAR, so I can't comment any further.
When it comes time to go to the BAR, be organized. Have pictures and documentation about the swap. The easier you make it for them to get the information they need, the better it will go for you. On one car, I did have to go fix something and come back. That happens, don't sweat it. A lot of times the state ref gets a bad rap from people, but their just doing their jobs. Be helpful to them and they'll make things easier.
You can also call the BAR ahead of time and talk with a ref if you have any questions. You won't always get one in your area, but they are a good resource if you're unsure about whether something you're doing will be allowed.
Getting the manifolds and cats that come with the motor to fit into your application is the biggest hurdle of the whole thing. In talking with a state ref, you cannot modify the cats at all, even if it is to fit the chassis. What I have heard of some people doing is using a factory manifold and cat from a different application, like a Silverado, to get things to fit. I can't guarantee that will pass though.
From what I have heard, with the CARB sticker that comes with the engine, you "should" be able to go to any smog station and get the car smogged without going to a state ref first. As long as the car meets the requirements of the EO number, you shouldn't need to go to the BAR. Now, the two times I have dealt with eRod motors, we went to the BAR, so I can't comment any further.
When it comes time to go to the BAR, be organized. Have pictures and documentation about the swap. The easier you make it for them to get the information they need, the better it will go for you. On one car, I did have to go fix something and come back. That happens, don't sweat it. A lot of times the state ref gets a bad rap from people, but their just doing their jobs. Be helpful to them and they'll make things easier.
You can also call the BAR ahead of time and talk with a ref if you have any questions. You won't always get one in your area, but they are a good resource if you're unsure about whether something you're doing will be allowed.
03-12-2019, 11:27 PM
#16
The E-rod packages come in different horsepower and under the current regulations qualifications are hinged to the vehicles original GVWR, don't want to get me started on this because that makes no since, my trucks GVWR was 5600 the Executive Order exclusion D-126-32 was for vehichles 5725 and below, what ever happened to simple tail pipe testing but keep in mind you cant alter much of anything on any erod package and all engine packages are quite specific to each E.O. exemption. you are required to vent your fuel tank to a charcoal canister and a host of other tasks that would make a small difference in the emissions, I will even have to upgrade my fuel fill pipe to 2006 or later regulations.
03-12-2019, 11:51 PM
#17
Doc 350 it is great to meet someone who has done the same thing, I did want to upgrade my truck and stay compliant and with the new regulations, when reviewing qualifying based on GVWR of the original vehicle I had only this option, although I'm pretty sure I will like the outcome if all goes as planned. I defiantly hear what your saying about the manifolds and cats I did talk to a ref who said the same thing about modifying the manifolds, cats and sensors stating they have to be within 1 inch of the Erods original location from the heads, I have not test fitted just yet and am hoping that they will fit within the frame rails with no mods, a tape measure tells me its going to be close, I understand I will have to go to the bar at some point to get there sticker exempting the vehicle from its original smog requirements and adopting the Erod emissions package, that was my plan anyway to complete the circle by visiting the bar to get there sticker, it will be nerve racking because this is not cheap by any means and you have to invest then get there blessing imagine if you invest and for some reason did not get there blessing you now have a huge expensive paper weight "it all goes directly to DMV" , although I have never heard of that happening and GMPP said that if it comes to it they will step in if you have installed per recommendations. I have been taking pictures and studying the I sheets as well taking advantage of any help like on here I can get. I'm curious what vehicles did you swap?
03-14-2019, 12:27 AM
#19
Hello all,
I am wondering if anyone has installed an LS 3 6.2 Erod Being in Calif I have no other legal choices but this engine or rebuild my 305 with the same choked out emissions system, IM not complaining about the only choice I think its a perfect engine for the swap I'm putting it in A 1986 C 10, I'm happy GMPP went to the trouble for me to have this option. I'm wondering has anyone done this swap or similar? What were your challenges where there fitment issues? Are you in Calif did you go through the Bureau of Automotive Repair to sign off How was that were there any issued with the regulators? I have removed my old engine tranny and computer the wiring is going to be my biggest challenge like figuring out what wires I need to remove from the trucks harness if any, I removed the engine harness with the computer. I have the new engine in my shop now the bed and front clip removed cleaning up the frame rear-end and front cross member and should be starting the process of install this weekend. Ill post a few pics later today.
thanks
I am wondering if anyone has installed an LS 3 6.2 Erod Being in Calif I have no other legal choices but this engine or rebuild my 305 with the same choked out emissions system, IM not complaining about the only choice I think its a perfect engine for the swap I'm putting it in A 1986 C 10, I'm happy GMPP went to the trouble for me to have this option. I'm wondering has anyone done this swap or similar? What were your challenges where there fitment issues? Are you in Calif did you go through the Bureau of Automotive Repair to sign off How was that were there any issued with the regulators? I have removed my old engine tranny and computer the wiring is going to be my biggest challenge like figuring out what wires I need to remove from the trucks harness if any, I removed the engine harness with the computer. I have the new engine in my shop now the bed and front clip removed cleaning up the frame rear-end and front cross member and should be starting the process of install this weekend. Ill post a few pics later today.
thanks
1- Engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle it's going in
2- truck engine for a truck/ car engine for a car only.
3- Must have all smog equipment from the donor engine/ vehicle
4- if it's a 50 state car, it requires a 50 state engine. meaning you can't put a 49 state engine (one that's not certified for use in CA) into a vehicle here
When you're done you take it to a referee, they certify it, apply a bar code sticker to your door jamb, and you're g2g. They make it sound simple. So, back to your questions.
yes, I did an emissions legal engine swap here in CA. I did it, but would not want to do it again. The referee I went to was a stickler to say the least. I swapped an '02 LS1 into an '84 TA. The first time I went I was failed for 2 reasons: 1- no amber check engine light in view of the driver's seat. Must turn on with the key in the "on" position" and shut off after a few seconds, and 2- I had a non CARB approved cold air intake. Because this part touches a pollution controlling component (MAF and IAT sensor) I was failed. Car ran fine, ran clean and within spec, but it was a visual fail. The guy went so far as to call someone in sacremento to check on rules as I had my data link connector in the engine bay, and he thought that wasn't legal. Turns out that was OK, but it certainly added to the drama. This guy had mirrors on telescoping poles to look under the car, and he was looking. I took it back a second time with the check engine light fixed and added a stock '04 GTO air filter box as that's all that would fit. He was reluctant to even pass that, I had to argue and plea with the guy to approve it.
I'm sure your E Rod engine will have wires for the check engine light- just make sure the light is amber and can be seen from the driver's seat. Try not to modify anything that has a pollution controlling device/ sensor on it. Go with CARB approved or OEM where possible. My advice. Good luck
You can reach the BAR here: https://bar.ca.gov/About_BAR/Contact_Us.html
03-14-2019, 11:05 AM
#20