5.3 into Wrangler - which oil pan?
01-10-2009, 08:02 PM
#22
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That's a clean Jeep! Got anymore pics you want to share 
Cruise and everything still work?
I have a custom alum. gas tank that uses the Jeep fuel module and stretched out to ~100 with room to go back another ~2" that I want to do at some point.
I'm using all AA components for the swap. Vic (sales manager) hooked me up very nicely, since it was my personal rig. Not sure if my mounts will need the pillow block clearanced or not..?
In the 'kit' from AA, there is a shifter relocation kit for the Rubicon tcase - moves the shifter off the tub and to the tcase/trans.
I'm using the stock GM harness/PCM out of the donor - 08 4x4 Silverado.
I have no intention on wiring up a nuetral safety switch or the lock deal that engages if the key is off. It's more a trail rig, too and I don't have any issue about it starting while in gear or etc. I've had my clutch safety disabled since new as well.
Cruise and everything still work?I have a custom alum. gas tank that uses the Jeep fuel module and stretched out to ~100 with room to go back another ~2" that I want to do at some point.
I'm using all AA components for the swap. Vic (sales manager) hooked me up very nicely, since it was my personal rig. Not sure if my mounts will need the pillow block clearanced or not..?
In the 'kit' from AA, there is a shifter relocation kit for the Rubicon tcase - moves the shifter off the tub and to the tcase/trans.
I'm using the stock GM harness/PCM out of the donor - 08 4x4 Silverado.
I have no intention on wiring up a nuetral safety switch or the lock deal that engages if the key is off. It's more a trail rig, too and I don't have any issue about it starting while in gear or etc. I've had my clutch safety disabled since new as well.
I can understand wanting to keep it clean, too. I really like the look of a clean factory looking swap. The Hemi powered JK's done by AEV are my favorite. Mine is slowly turning buggy like, so I'm ok with the ugliness of the art carr as long as it's functional. I also want to get it up off the floor and in a spot where I don't have to reach for it - where I can just rest my arm on the center console and also have my hand on the shifter.
I also tried the Lokar direct link style shifter at first. It's a nice looking shifter, but I couldn't make it work with my combo. The linkage interfered with the TC linkage. Now that I'm using Novak's shifter (I love this btw), I may actually have room for the Lokar, but not sure. If you're not using a 231 TC, that doesn't matter much though.. I love it because it does away with the mushiness of the z link OEM linkage and doesn't bind with body flex.
Here's what I did for my gauges. I went with autometer full sweep gauges where possible and they've worked out well. I also added a green LED for 4wd and amber for CEL. I thought about turn signals, but got lazy, and hardly drive this on the street anymore - although plates are still on just in case I need it.
I agree, the autometer's are great for their programming features. I'm using a 15gal RCI fuel cell mounted up against the tail gate in the tub w/90ohm sender - basically for crawling reasons, and also want to move up to a suspension stretch kit in the near future.
I don't recall which motor mounts you said you're going with, but if they're AA, you'll need to modify the steering pillow block for the steering. AA made them all wrong. I've sent them pics and descriptions of the problem. It's a simple fix though - either re-drill the holes in the mounts, or re-do the pillow block mount completely. If you're not using AA mounts, then it's a non-issue..
BTW, you don't really need to use the neutral safety switch in the aftermarket shifters if you plan to wire up the GM ECM/TCM (or PCM, whichever you're using) following the GM wiring implementation. There is a switch already in the trans for that and the ECM will prevent starting if it's not seeing a N or P signal. Of course, if you're using an aftermarket harness, that may not be the case. It was already wired, so I went ahead and used it in my config.
I also tried the Lokar direct link style shifter at first. It's a nice looking shifter, but I couldn't make it work with my combo. The linkage interfered with the TC linkage. Now that I'm using Novak's shifter (I love this btw), I may actually have room for the Lokar, but not sure. If you're not using a 231 TC, that doesn't matter much though.. I love it because it does away with the mushiness of the z link OEM linkage and doesn't bind with body flex.
Here's what I did for my gauges. I went with autometer full sweep gauges where possible and they've worked out well. I also added a green LED for 4wd and amber for CEL. I thought about turn signals, but got lazy, and hardly drive this on the street anymore - although plates are still on just in case I need it.
I agree, the autometer's are great for their programming features. I'm using a 15gal RCI fuel cell mounted up against the tail gate in the tub w/90ohm sender - basically for crawling reasons, and also want to move up to a suspension stretch kit in the near future.
I don't recall which motor mounts you said you're going with, but if they're AA, you'll need to modify the steering pillow block for the steering. AA made them all wrong. I've sent them pics and descriptions of the problem. It's a simple fix though - either re-drill the holes in the mounts, or re-do the pillow block mount completely. If you're not using AA mounts, then it's a non-issue..
BTW, you don't really need to use the neutral safety switch in the aftermarket shifters if you plan to wire up the GM ECM/TCM (or PCM, whichever you're using) following the GM wiring implementation. There is a switch already in the trans for that and the ECM will prevent starting if it's not seeing a N or P signal. Of course, if you're using an aftermarket harness, that may not be the case. It was already wired, so I went ahead and used it in my config.
01-10-2009, 08:45 PM
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Nah, no cruise, just haven't swapped out the wheel for something aftermarket yet. No A/C either, although last summer I seriously thought about putting the compressor back on the motor as it was HOT out for a couple wheeling events. I survived though 
Yeah, Vic is who I was dealing with on the pillow block issue. It's as if they installed the steering support backwards on the motor mount. You'll see what I mean when you get to that point. It's really a simple fix though. He told me that when they designed the mounts, they used a 4cyl Wrangler as a guide which uses a different steering bracket than the 6cyl (which I had). So, a buddy provided me with his 4cyl style bracket to use. It didn't line up either. So.. I just re-drilled the mount to make it work. I assume AA is still sending them out that way because they never replied to my pics and info about it after the second set of emails. Here's what it looks like.
I have a few more pics here but I really didn't take many during the swap.
What do you plan to use for fuel regulation/pump?
Yeah, Vic is who I was dealing with on the pillow block issue. It's as if they installed the steering support backwards on the motor mount. You'll see what I mean when you get to that point. It's really a simple fix though. He told me that when they designed the mounts, they used a 4cyl Wrangler as a guide which uses a different steering bracket than the 6cyl (which I had). So, a buddy provided me with his 4cyl style bracket to use. It didn't line up either. So.. I just re-drilled the mount to make it work. I assume AA is still sending them out that way because they never replied to my pics and info about it after the second set of emails. Here's what it looks like.
I have a few more pics here but I really didn't take many during the swap.
What do you plan to use for fuel regulation/pump?
01-10-2009, 11:40 PM
#26
LS swap The plow works well. It's a bit heavy for the Jeep. 600 pounds on the front.
I extended the bump stops to keep the left upper control mount on the axle from hitting the alternator. The plow brings it right down on the bump stops when the plow is up.
Western makes a SUV plow one size smaller and some what lighter. I bought this one used. It's typically for a half ton pick up. I only plow my place. It's quick detach mount and joy stick control. Takes about 5 minutes to remove.
The posi in the 8.8 helps push the snow. The small turning radius is nice.
I extended the bump stops to keep the left upper control mount on the axle from hitting the alternator. The plow brings it right down on the bump stops when the plow is up.
Western makes a SUV plow one size smaller and some what lighter. I bought this one used. It's typically for a half ton pick up. I only plow my place. It's quick detach mount and joy stick control. Takes about 5 minutes to remove.
The posi in the 8.8 helps push the snow. The small turning radius is nice.
01-11-2009, 11:26 AM
#27
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Nah, no cruise, just haven't swapped out the wheel for something aftermarket yet. No A/C either, although last summer I seriously thought about putting the compressor back on the motor as it was HOT out for a couple wheeling events. I survived though
Yeah, Vic is who I was dealing with on the pillow block issue. It's as if they installed the steering support backwards on the motor mount. You'll see what I mean when you get to that point. It's really a simple fix though. He told me that when they designed the mounts, they used a 4cyl Wrangler as a guide which uses a different steering bracket than the 6cyl (which I had). So, a buddy provided me with his 4cyl style bracket to use. It didn't line up either. So.. I just re-drilled the mount to make it work. I assume AA is still sending them out that way because they never replied to my pics and info about it after the second set of emails. Here's what it looks like.
I have a few more pics here but I really didn't take many during the swap.
What do you plan to use for fuel regulation/pump?
Yeah, Vic is who I was dealing with on the pillow block issue. It's as if they installed the steering support backwards on the motor mount. You'll see what I mean when you get to that point. It's really a simple fix though. He told me that when they designed the mounts, they used a 4cyl Wrangler as a guide which uses a different steering bracket than the 6cyl (which I had). So, a buddy provided me with his 4cyl style bracket to use. It didn't line up either. So.. I just re-drilled the mount to make it work. I assume AA is still sending them out that way because they never replied to my pics and info about it after the second set of emails. Here's what it looks like.
I have a few more pics here but I really didn't take many during the swap.
What do you plan to use for fuel regulation/pump?
As of right now I'm not sure what I'll do about the fuel. I like what LS1TJ did below with his. That's probably the cleanest setup I've seen yet. I might see if I can modify the OEM regulator to increase the pressure? I hear the pump supplies enough for a stock motor, and since I won't be running it in the high RPM's it shouldn't need more fuel. I'll have a wideband o2 running and will be able to see if fuel ever becomes an issue.
01-11-2009, 12:01 PM
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You can use a variety of options when it comes to fuel supply. The motor wants 58psi at the rail. I've heard of guys using less than that with their original parts, but I'd be nervous. If you have the datalogger and HPt, I would just make absolutely sure that you aren't running lean at any point.
A walbro pump with the vette filter/regulator is a popular setup, as well as what Jim is using. I had some leftover parts from past Corvette builds that I had done, so I just used them. I'm using the RCI tank with an external inline Walbro 255lph mounted up under the tub. Then through an aeromotive regulator mounted on the firewall. I ran a return back to the tank. If I didn't have all the parts laying around already, I wouldn't have done a much cheaper scheme.
If you're using the AA motor mounts, you have to remove (grind or plasma)the OEM pillow block from the frame.
A walbro pump with the vette filter/regulator is a popular setup, as well as what Jim is using. I had some leftover parts from past Corvette builds that I had done, so I just used them. I'm using the RCI tank with an external inline Walbro 255lph mounted up under the tub. Then through an aeromotive regulator mounted on the firewall. I ran a return back to the tank. If I didn't have all the parts laying around already, I wouldn't have done a much cheaper scheme.
If you're using the AA motor mounts, you have to remove (grind or plasma)the OEM pillow block from the frame.
01-11-2009, 12:44 PM
#29
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You can use a variety of options when it comes to fuel supply. The motor wants 58psi at the rail. I've heard of guys using less than that with their original parts, but I'd be nervous. If you have the datalogger and HPt, I would just make absolutely sure that you aren't running lean at any point.
A walbro pump with the vette filter/regulator is a popular setup, as well as what Jim is using. I had some leftover parts from past Corvette builds that I had done, so I just used them. I'm using the RCI tank with an external inline Walbro 255lph mounted up under the tub. Then through an aeromotive regulator mounted on the firewall. I ran a return back to the tank. If I didn't have all the parts laying around already, I wouldn't have done a much cheaper scheme.
If you're using the AA motor mounts, you have to remove (grind or plasma)the OEM pillow block from the frame.
A walbro pump with the vette filter/regulator is a popular setup, as well as what Jim is using. I had some leftover parts from past Corvette builds that I had done, so I just used them. I'm using the RCI tank with an external inline Walbro 255lph mounted up under the tub. Then through an aeromotive regulator mounted on the firewall. I ran a return back to the tank. If I didn't have all the parts laying around already, I wouldn't have done a much cheaper scheme.
If you're using the AA motor mounts, you have to remove (grind or plasma)the OEM pillow block from the frame.
I've thought about doing the Walbro regardless, just because I will already have the tank out when I do the gauges - the fuel gauge needs to see empty to program empty.
I've been kind of scared off from the Walbro. There is a guy on ebay selling them that has his own line and says they are noisy and etc? What's your experience?
01-11-2009, 02:21 PM
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Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about the Walbro quality on forums lately. Not sure what to make of it all though. Mine has been working flawlessly for the past year since the install. It is a little noisy after key-on prime, but when the engine's running, all you hear is flowmaster anyway.
I hear ya on the money. These projects nickle and dime you to death. I mistyped my reply above. I meant to say if I didn't have the fuel parts already, I would have gone the much cheaper route. It works just as well. Al lot of guys use the vette filter/regulator because it's like $30 IIRC. Maybe more now, I'm not sure. You should be able to modify what you have and make it work too. I think AA has a write up about that on their site.
I hear ya on the money. These projects nickle and dime you to death. I mistyped my reply above. I meant to say if I didn't have the fuel parts already, I would have gone the much cheaper route. It works just as well. Al lot of guys use the vette filter/regulator because it's like $30 IIRC. Maybe more now, I'm not sure. You should be able to modify what you have and make it work too. I think AA has a write up about that on their site.
01-11-2009, 02:23 PM
#31
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Yeah, there's been a lot of talk about the Walbro quality on forums lately. Not sure what to make of it all though. Mine has been working flawlessly for the past year since the install. It is a little noisy after key-on prime, but when the engine's running, all you hear is flowmaster anyway.
I hear ya on the money. These projects nickle and dime you to death. I mistyped my reply above. I meant to say if I didn't have the fuel parts already, I would have gone the much cheaper route. It works just as well. Al lot of guys use the vette filter/regulator because it's like $30 IIRC. Maybe more now, I'm not sure. You should be able to modify what you have and make it work too. I think AA has a write up about that on their site.
I hear ya on the money. These projects nickle and dime you to death. I mistyped my reply above. I meant to say if I didn't have the fuel parts already, I would have gone the much cheaper route. It works just as well. Al lot of guys use the vette filter/regulator because it's like $30 IIRC. Maybe more now, I'm not sure. You should be able to modify what you have and make it work too. I think AA has a write up about that on their site.
If you see that write up, I'd love to read it!
01-11-2009, 07:52 PM
#32
LS swap On my first Wrangler swap I used a 4.8 out of a 2001 chev pick up.
I used the stock 2.5 jeep fuel pump and regulator. It ran perfect. I never checked the fuel pressure at the rail. I looked closely at the jeep reuglator filter and couldn't see how it could be modified to increase the pressure.
On my 6.0 swap and LS1 swap I did use the Corvette regulator. Short return line to the tank. Single line to the fuel rail.
You can here the pump prime but after the engine is running you can't hear it.
I used a Bosch external pump on my Camaro and it is noisy but after 3 years it's still working well. Again I used a Corvette regulator filter.
I used the stock 2.5 jeep fuel pump and regulator. It ran perfect. I never checked the fuel pressure at the rail. I looked closely at the jeep reuglator filter and couldn't see how it could be modified to increase the pressure.
On my 6.0 swap and LS1 swap I did use the Corvette regulator. Short return line to the tank. Single line to the fuel rail.
You can here the pump prime but after the engine is running you can't hear it.
I used a Bosch external pump on my Camaro and it is noisy but after 3 years it's still working well. Again I used a Corvette regulator filter.
01-11-2009, 08:46 PM
#33
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I found a document that states all Gen III and IV injectors are rated at 58 psi. Now I know why people are saying you gotta run 58 psi. Nobody could tell me why, just 'that was the way it is'. The info I had was wrong, and that's that it used 43.5 PSI rated injectors. So now things have changed...
I'm going to go ahead and do the Walbro 255 pump. Now I'm not sure if I'll use the Corvette filter or a Mallory 3 port regultor. Most likely I'll just the filter since 1, I have to buy a filter anyway. And 2, it's cheaper than the regulator. I like what LS1TJ did with his pump module and I'll probably 'borrow' his design...
So what fitting do I need at the fuel rail? Rusell makes them, right? And also, are you guys using new fuel line or adapting the present Jeep hardline?
I'm going to go ahead and do the Walbro 255 pump. Now I'm not sure if I'll use the Corvette filter or a Mallory 3 port regultor. Most likely I'll just the filter since 1, I have to buy a filter anyway. And 2, it's cheaper than the regulator. I like what LS1TJ did with his pump module and I'll probably 'borrow' his design...
So what fitting do I need at the fuel rail? Rusell makes them, right? And also, are you guys using new fuel line or adapting the present Jeep hardline?
01-11-2009, 08:49 PM
#34
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01-12-2009, 10:16 AM
#35
LS swap I used -6 steel braided line. The stock Jeep fuel is 5/16" OD and not easy to adapt at the tank.
Russell makes a fitting that plugs into the stock fuel rail and has a male -6 fitting on the other end.
Russell makes a fitting that plugs into the stock fuel rail and has a male -6 fitting on the other end.
01-12-2009, 12:50 PM
#36
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I'm thinking that if I'm doing this, I might as well just run -8 all the way from the tank/fuel filter to the motor. At some point I may like the bigger fuel supply
01-12-2009, 05:38 PM
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I ran -8 for the feed and -6 for the return. If running the vette filter, the return can be very short and just run the feed up to the rail.
Yeah, reason for the 58psi is that all of the PCM fueling is based off that figure. That's why I was saying that the motor may run at a lower feed pressure, but fueling would be off, possibly dangerously off.
There's some fuel related info at the bottom of AA's motor mount PDF too:
http://www.atlas-tc.com/pdf/712/713093.pdf
Yeah, reason for the 58psi is that all of the PCM fueling is based off that figure. That's why I was saying that the motor may run at a lower feed pressure, but fueling would be off, possibly dangerously off.
There's some fuel related info at the bottom of AA's motor mount PDF too:
http://www.atlas-tc.com/pdf/712/713093.pdf
01-12-2009, 09:10 PM
#38
LS swap The tank fittings are Russell bulk head fittings using poly gaskets to seal.
I am reworking the 98 tank a bit. The fittings going into the tank are welded to the round disc at the top of the tank. I bought steel -6 fittings instead of alumimum and to do away with the poly gaskets welding seemed more secure. I can post some pics this weekend.
Keep in mind the Walbro 255 has a output diameter of 5/16". -6 is 3/8".
I have "heard" -6 is good for 450 hp plus. More than I'm making.
The round disc is 3/16" thick cold rolled steel. Cold rolled is smooth and seals against the rubber gasket. Don't use hot rolled, it's too rough.
Just a quick note. The V8 power in a Wrangler makes it a bit scary on ice or snow. It's bit front heavy and will spin with a quick shot of throttle. Just a reminder.
Also remember all this info is for a race only vehicle not intended for any street driven vehicle. This is no toy!
Regards,
I am reworking the 98 tank a bit. The fittings going into the tank are welded to the round disc at the top of the tank. I bought steel -6 fittings instead of alumimum and to do away with the poly gaskets welding seemed more secure. I can post some pics this weekend.
Keep in mind the Walbro 255 has a output diameter of 5/16". -6 is 3/8".
I have "heard" -6 is good for 450 hp plus. More than I'm making.
The round disc is 3/16" thick cold rolled steel. Cold rolled is smooth and seals against the rubber gasket. Don't use hot rolled, it's too rough.
Just a quick note. The V8 power in a Wrangler makes it a bit scary on ice or snow. It's bit front heavy and will spin with a quick shot of throttle. Just a reminder.
Also remember all this info is for a race only vehicle not intended for any street driven vehicle. This is no toy!
Regards,
01-12-2009, 09:29 PM
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What's even more fun is sitting at a light getting ready to turn left. And you have a lock right installed out back. And the light changes green, you hit the gas and the left front wheel comes completely off the ground. First time that happened to me I about soiled the seat.. Now I just use it to scare unsuspecting friends 
But yes, be very careful. Lot of power in a very short wheelbase vehicle. Especially if it's head/cammed
First time that happened to me I about soiled the seat.. Now I just use it to scare unsuspecting friends But yes, be very careful. Lot of power in a very short wheelbase vehicle. Especially if it's head/cammed
01-12-2009, 09:38 PM
#40
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Actually, the document I read said the injectors are rated for 58 psi, not that the computer requires it. That was my main beef before - that if it was a computer requirement, there was no reason it wouldn't work - I have HP Tuner, I could fix that. But now I know it's not an electrical requirement, it's mechanical - the injector that is used requires it. You run lower pressure than the injector is rated for and it screws up the spray pattern and can even make it drop fuel instead of atomize it. Complicated, but I'm sure you understand...
So the way I see it I have two choices at this point -
1 - continue with the plan of providing the 58 psi
2 - continue with the 49 psi of the stock pump/regulator and change injectors to match.
I'll go with 1. There is an efficiency reason that GM has increased the operating pressure again (used to be 43.5? IIRC). But another is I don't know enough about interchangeability - what injectors will fit that operate with a lower pressure. Too complicated IMO...
I looked at the AA document - thanks!! I don't like that setup as much as I like the other... I want to keep the pump in the tank and I think the Jeep module is a good'un for this.
I'll take a looksy at the Russel fittings... Maybe I would be able to find them in the catalog easier...
So the way I see it I have two choices at this point -
1 - continue with the plan of providing the 58 psi
2 - continue with the 49 psi of the stock pump/regulator and change injectors to match.
I'll go with 1. There is an efficiency reason that GM has increased the operating pressure again (used to be 43.5? IIRC). But another is I don't know enough about interchangeability - what injectors will fit that operate with a lower pressure. Too complicated IMO...
I looked at the AA document - thanks!! I don't like that setup as much as I like the other... I want to keep the pump in the tank and I think the Jeep module is a good'un for this.
I'll take a looksy at the Russel fittings... Maybe I would be able to find them in the catalog easier...