Picture and comments on my S&P notched oil pan
11-23-2003, 10:10 PM
#1
Picture and comments on my S&P notched oil pan Well it arrived on Friday as promised 
The welding looked pretty good but its true that its only welded on the outside. I suppose its strong enough. The plate aluminum they used looks thick enough but is a bit dimpled looking, its more of an athestics thing.
I checked the pan and there seems to be no warpage. Oh, I didnt get my pan back.. I got one from a vette.. i suppose there is little difference. Also you can't run the factory windage tray due to the modifications. The oil pickup tube was also modified and it looks like the did a good job, I cant see the inside though and wont know till monday if it was done right (when I fit it to the motor)
One question: What the heck did they weld up on the front edge of the pan? I dont remember anything there.. Im also going to plug up the low oil sensor bung and modify the pan for a autometer elec sending unit for pressure. Think I should powder paint it silver or charcoal? its pretty darn ugly...
I will let you all know tomorrow about the pick up tube. S&P isnt the cheapest place in town and their header dept was hell to get a return phone call from BUT the parts ive ordered have come on time and so far have been or good quality. Your milage may vary
Oh, go my new coil over suspension now too.. pics on site
The welding looked pretty good but its true that its only welded on the outside. I suppose its strong enough. The plate aluminum they used looks thick enough but is a bit dimpled looking, its more of an athestics thing.
I checked the pan and there seems to be no warpage. Oh, I didnt get my pan back.. I got one from a vette.. i suppose there is little difference. Also you can't run the factory windage tray due to the modifications. The oil pickup tube was also modified and it looks like the did a good job, I cant see the inside though and wont know till monday if it was done right (when I fit it to the motor)
One question: What the heck did they weld up on the front edge of the pan? I dont remember anything there.. Im also going to plug up the low oil sensor bung and modify the pan for a autometer elec sending unit for pressure. Think I should powder paint it silver or charcoal? its pretty darn ugly...
I will let you all know tomorrow about the pick up tube. S&P isnt the cheapest place in town and their header dept was hell to get a return phone call from BUT the parts ive ordered have come on time and so far have been or good quality. Your milage may vary
Oh, go my new coil over suspension now too.. pics on site
11-24-2003, 12:42 AM
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Steve,
I hope your pan works out for you. It looks quite a bit different than my pan. The fact that you were told not to use the factory windage tray bothers me. Either they told me otherwise or your getting the wrong information. I would call them back and verify that. It was a little unsettling when I went round and round with nearly everyone that probably works there, and got different opinions from of them. I was never told not to use the windage tray though. I informed S&P that it may be part of the problem but they told me it had to be used. I had one employee there tell me to cut the baffles out of the pan in order to solve the pickup to baffle clearance problem. I thought the idea was ridiculous and asked over and over again if he was sure, and why S&P didn't remove them if they were unnecessary. Why should I have to modify the pan? Thats what I'm paying them to do, right? Then he told me just before I ended the phone call not to remove the baffles and that he was mistaking the baffles for the trap door used in the stock pan and thought mine may have still had one??? We argued some more and nobody seemed to know anything about the products they were selling.
Most of that conversation I believe was actually with Mark the owner. I questioned him directly if he had any quality control monitoring the products they sold. He didn't answer. I asked him if they test fit any of the products they sell, because if they did it would be very apparent that the garbage he sent me wouldn't come even close to fitting. He instantly transferred me to about 3 more people before the supposed welder got on the line. I explained to him exactly what the problem was. He didn't seem to care and apparently didn't listen because the second pickup tube was far worse than the first. Not only did it not fit, it was full of metal shavings even after I complained the first being full of shavings. Shake your pickup tube and listen for rattling. I'm curious to know if that problem has been taken care of yet. Definately flush it and get rid of all that casting flash from that crappy welds inside the pan if there is any. I'd hate to hear about you losing your motor because of their poor welding.
Good luck Steve. Hope to see the 69 at the car show sometime soon. From what I've heard from Oxidizer, it sounds like its gonna be a pretty wicked ride.
Take it easy,
Chad
I hope your pan works out for you. It looks quite a bit different than my pan. The fact that you were told not to use the factory windage tray bothers me. Either they told me otherwise or your getting the wrong information. I would call them back and verify that. It was a little unsettling when I went round and round with nearly everyone that probably works there, and got different opinions from of them. I was never told not to use the windage tray though. I informed S&P that it may be part of the problem but they told me it had to be used. I had one employee there tell me to cut the baffles out of the pan in order to solve the pickup to baffle clearance problem. I thought the idea was ridiculous and asked over and over again if he was sure, and why S&P didn't remove them if they were unnecessary. Why should I have to modify the pan? Thats what I'm paying them to do, right? Then he told me just before I ended the phone call not to remove the baffles and that he was mistaking the baffles for the trap door used in the stock pan and thought mine may have still had one??? We argued some more and nobody seemed to know anything about the products they were selling.
Most of that conversation I believe was actually with Mark the owner. I questioned him directly if he had any quality control monitoring the products they sold. He didn't answer. I asked him if they test fit any of the products they sell, because if they did it would be very apparent that the garbage he sent me wouldn't come even close to fitting. He instantly transferred me to about 3 more people before the supposed welder got on the line. I explained to him exactly what the problem was. He didn't seem to care and apparently didn't listen because the second pickup tube was far worse than the first. Not only did it not fit, it was full of metal shavings even after I complained the first being full of shavings. Shake your pickup tube and listen for rattling. I'm curious to know if that problem has been taken care of yet. Definately flush it and get rid of all that casting flash from that crappy welds inside the pan if there is any. I'd hate to hear about you losing your motor because of their poor welding.
Good luck Steve. Hope to see the 69 at the car show sometime soon. From what I've heard from Oxidizer, it sounds like its gonna be a pretty wicked ride.
Take it easy,
Chad
11-24-2003, 01:01 AM
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I too had my pickup tube and pan modified by S&P for an installation into a Chevelle. I was told to remove the windage tray as well. Just so we're clear, you're all speaking of the tray inside the pan that keeps the oil from sloshing out of the pan, not the tray that covers the crank right? The reason I asked is because I left the tray covering the crank and it seemed the clearance from the bottom of the pickup to the bottom of the pan, measured with a straight edge and scale, wasn't much, if nothing at all. removing the upper tray may have provided more clearance. I was able to get the pan on so there must have been some clearance but I'm concerned the oil pickup may have bottomed out on the pan, restricting the oil flow. I plan on measuring the pressure when I crank it to verify I have flow but I am a little worried.
By the way all my welds were fine, (there were only outside welds), no flash in the pan, and I supported the engine several times on the pan with no damaged so by all visual indications the quality looked fine. My pan was modifed over 6 months ago.
By the way all my welds were fine, (there were only outside welds), no flash in the pan, and I supported the engine several times on the pan with no damaged so by all visual indications the quality looked fine. My pan was modifed over 6 months ago.
11-24-2003, 11:25 AM
#4
Well there are two trays here.. the windage tray that is bolted to the block and the (dont know the official term) plate that bolts to the bottom of the oil pan.
Since the pan is notched and the pick-up location is moved the plate in the bottom of the oil pan is unusable.
I was told not to use the windage tray since it wouldnt fit with the modified pan.. maybe they were confused and were thinking of the plate the bolts into the oilpan.. It really wouldnt hurt not to run the windage tray but I would like to if possible.
The oil tube seems to fit good but it was covered in metal bits so it will need to be cleaned. There is no way for me to check inside the tube but the quality of the outside welds seems good.
No slag inside the pan from the welds so I dont see an issue there. We also fitted it the block and the pan was pretty darn close to being perfect.
I will call S&P on the windage tray questions.. will be curious to see their Customer Service for myself.
Since the pan is notched and the pick-up location is moved the plate in the bottom of the oil pan is unusable.
I was told not to use the windage tray since it wouldnt fit with the modified pan.. maybe they were confused and were thinking of the plate the bolts into the oilpan.. It really wouldnt hurt not to run the windage tray but I would like to if possible.
The oil tube seems to fit good but it was covered in metal bits so it will need to be cleaned. There is no way for me to check inside the tube but the quality of the outside welds seems good.
No slag inside the pan from the welds so I dont see an issue there. We also fitted it the block and the pan was pretty darn close to being perfect.
I will call S&P on the windage tray questions.. will be curious to see their Customer Service for myself.
11-24-2003, 12:14 PM
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**** @ (non)Performance .. I mean Street & Performance Steve:
The pan modifications for the Malibu/Chevelle are much more extensive. The pan we recieved is no where near as easy to fabricate. Honestly, I'm not the greatest heli-arc welder but, I could notched your pan and welded a piece of angle aluminum with no problem. The warpage we saw is due to the proximity of the welds in the design of the Malibu/Chevelle pan. Literally, you looking at four times the weld and heat applied to complete the work. The pan we have has no finished surfaces ... it is a piece of cast aluminum (what grade who knows) and not the billet you have in yours. Also the tube is much more a problem in the Malibu/Chevelle application due to the limited space and poor quality welding.
When I had my fabrication shop fix the pan, we had to make-shift a steel torque plate with access holes cut to allow the welding to take place while still not allowing the aluminum to expand so greatly as to cause the warpage we noticed. We had to modify the pickup tube baffles in the pan to allow the puck-up to even fit into the pan.
Also, they are speaking of removing the oil trap panel not windage tray as that would be rediculous especialyl without the oil trap panel in place.
I have plenty of pics and will get around to posting very soon.
The pan modifications for the Malibu/Chevelle are much more extensive. The pan we recieved is no where near as easy to fabricate. Honestly, I'm not the greatest heli-arc welder but, I could notched your pan and welded a piece of angle aluminum with no problem. The warpage we saw is due to the proximity of the welds in the design of the Malibu/Chevelle pan. Literally, you looking at four times the weld and heat applied to complete the work. The pan we have has no finished surfaces ... it is a piece of cast aluminum (what grade who knows) and not the billet you have in yours. Also the tube is much more a problem in the Malibu/Chevelle application due to the limited space and poor quality welding.
When I had my fabrication shop fix the pan, we had to make-shift a steel torque plate with access holes cut to allow the welding to take place while still not allowing the aluminum to expand so greatly as to cause the warpage we noticed. We had to modify the pickup tube baffles in the pan to allow the puck-up to even fit into the pan.
Also, they are speaking of removing the oil trap panel not windage tray as that would be rediculous especialyl without the oil trap panel in place.
I have plenty of pics and will get around to posting very soon.
11-24-2003, 12:59 PM
#6
Yea, I had a feeling they meant the oil trap panel and not the windage tray.. how the hell would the windage tray be in the way????
So the verdict so far is they are ok if you need a camaro pan but they suck if you need a chevelle pan??
Sorry for all your troubles.. i guess the finished product will make it all worth while..
Any guesses what they welded up on the front of the pan? Ive heard a guess of a tap hole for a supercharger oil line.. ???
So the verdict so far is they are ok if you need a camaro pan but they suck if you need a chevelle pan??
Sorry for all your troubles.. i guess the finished product will make it all worth while..
Any guesses what they welded up on the front of the pan? Ive heard a guess of a tap hole for a supercharger oil line.. ???
11-24-2003, 07:58 PM
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Pan mod I just got my pan back for my Ventura II install. Its the same mod as the camaro. The new metal is not wavy like the picture in the first post. Its welded on the outside only also. Although it still seems strong enough. They also didn't return the plate that was bolted to the bottom of the pan. When I called they said it wasnt neccessary. The suction end of the tube sits a little crooked. My measurements put it about 7/16th of an inch off the bottom on one end and about 1/16th inch on the other. I had concerns about starving the pump for oil. Wish I had measured how close it was originally. Oh yes, I had to dimple the pickup tube to miss the dipstick tube and dipstick. If the pickup clearance works out to be OK, then I'm fairly happy with their service.
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11-24-2003, 11:37 PM
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I forgot to mention that I too had a problem clearing the pickup tube with my oil stick. I solved that by bending the oil stick tube slightly. It will probably result in a slight miscalculation of oil level but not by much I predict.
