A-body-LS Friendly Center Link
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
A-body-LS Friendly Center Link I am no pro regarding steering geometry though I can't help but to think or hope that a custom center steering link can be made or manufactured to clear the wide variety of LS oil pans out there. Would the steering still function properly if the center most section was straight and not kicked up at the ends? I'm surprised that no "manufacturers" have stepped up to provide a solution for this nagging issue...or maybe they already have... Any Thoughts?
Funny thing is, on some cars, the center link sits very low, almost on the "bash gaurd". Then compare the same year A body, and it sits way up high and smacks the ever living Sh*t out of the pan! I dont know if its just poor quality control on replacement idler arms / pitman arms, and the geometry is changing between manufacturers or what, but i cant figure out why some cars linkage sits low, and some sit high. Im lucky i guess, my el camino and my chevelle linkage hugs the crossmember nice and low. My friends 67 skylark we did a LQ9 swap on, and his linkage was a major problem. I did a 65 olds cutlass, and it was a bitch also for the same reason.
+3 on this one, somebody fab something god damn it! I'd do it, but you dont want my welds on your car
+3 on this one, somebody fab something god damn it! I'd do it, but you dont want my welds on your car
How about this? http://www.4raceparts.com/wenteq/Che...centerlink.htm .I never knew they offered a billet one. You can often find cool stuff if you search through the circle track catalogs.
TECH Regular
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 426
Likes: 4
From: Austin, TX
The shape of the link is not the limiting factor, the Pitman arm and the idler arm is what causes the interference. If you look around at different idler arms, you will see that there are at least 3 different drops available from different manufacturers. They go everywhere from absolutely straight, to having almost 3/4" drop on them. I reworked both my Pitman and idler arm to make the link drop down till it almost hits the frame. The geometry is actually better with the link dropped down. The pivot point for the tie rods should fall directly on top of the lower A arm pivot bolt to minimize bump steer, but the stock setup has the pivot falling about 3/4" above the center line of the A arm inner pivot.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
The shape of the link is not the limiting factor, the Pitman arm and the idler arm is what causes the interference. If you look around at different idler arms, you will see that there are at least 3 different drops available from different manufacturers. They go everywhere from absolutely straight, to having almost 3/4" drop on them. I reworked both my Pitman and idler arm to make the link drop down till it almost hits the frame. The geometry is actually better with the link dropped down. The pivot point for the tie rods should fall directly on top of the lower A arm pivot bolt to minimize bump steer, but the stock setup has the pivot falling about 3/4" above the center line of the A arm inner pivot.
Regards, John McGraw
Regards, John McGraw
Trending Topics
Before you get too much into this. .. two words "Bump Steer".....
To be moving the location of the center links ends, Pitman/Idler arms would be messing with the front suspension geometry. Bump and Roll steer would suffer the most. You can get a drop center link, but the ends will most likely be in the same OEM location with only the center section being lowered. they were mostly built to provide oil pan clearance for Drag cars back in the day....
The Early cars of the 60's, 70's and some of the 80's where bad enough, but to be messing with the steering geometry. You are going to be making a change where Bump/Roll Steer will be impacted.. If you have not heard what this is about, I suggest you try researching.
For a A-body, B-Body spindles and short upper A-Arms were one conversion the help eliminated positive Camber while going around a turn. But the Steering arm changed the geometry and does add some Bump Steer, but many (as I have done this convertsion) find the added value of eliminating Positive Camber out weights the small bit of added bump steer.
When you drop/lower your car with wtih springs or drop spindle.. you do cause some impact to the Steering geometry. For straight line racing, this may not be so much of an issue. But for a street or road/Auto-x racer.... this is important to be getting your steering geometry correct. Getting a correctly designed drop spindle is a plus (steering arm location). But them short A-Arms are a problem that caused positive camber while going around a turn under load.
Just something to consider...
To be moving the location of the center links ends, Pitman/Idler arms would be messing with the front suspension geometry. Bump and Roll steer would suffer the most. You can get a drop center link, but the ends will most likely be in the same OEM location with only the center section being lowered. they were mostly built to provide oil pan clearance for Drag cars back in the day....
The Early cars of the 60's, 70's and some of the 80's where bad enough, but to be messing with the steering geometry. You are going to be making a change where Bump/Roll Steer will be impacted.. If you have not heard what this is about, I suggest you try researching.
For a A-body, B-Body spindles and short upper A-Arms were one conversion the help eliminated positive Camber while going around a turn. But the Steering arm changed the geometry and does add some Bump Steer, but many (as I have done this convertsion) find the added value of eliminating Positive Camber out weights the small bit of added bump steer.
When you drop/lower your car with wtih springs or drop spindle.. you do cause some impact to the Steering geometry. For straight line racing, this may not be so much of an issue. But for a street or road/Auto-x racer.... this is important to be getting your steering geometry correct. Getting a correctly designed drop spindle is a plus (steering arm location). But them short A-Arms are a problem that caused positive camber while going around a turn under load.
Just something to consider...
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Before you get too much into this. .. two words "Bump Steer".....
To be moving the location of the center links ends, Pitman/Idler arms would be messing with the front suspension geometry. Bump and Roll steer would suffer the most. You can get a drop center link, but the ends will most likely be in the same OEM location with only the center section being lowered. they were mostly built to provide oil pan clearance for Drag cars back in the day....
The Early cars of the 60's, 70's and some of the 80's where bad enough, but to be messing with the steering geometry. You are going to be making a change where Bump/Roll Steer will be impacted.. If you have not heard what this is about, I suggest you try researching.
For a A-body, B-Body spindles and short upper A-Arms were one conversion the help eliminated positive Camber while going around a turn. But the Steering arm changed the geometry and does add some Bump Steer, but many (as I have done this convertsion) find the added value of eliminating Positive Camber out weights the small bit of added bump steer.
When you drop/lower your car with wtih springs or drop spindle.. you do cause some impact to the Steering geometry. For straight line racing, this may not be so much of an issue. But for a street or road/Auto-x racer.... this is important to be getting your steering geometry correct. Getting a correctly designed drop spindle is a plus (steering arm location). But them short A-Arms are a problem that caused positive camber while going around a turn under load.
Just something to consider...
To be moving the location of the center links ends, Pitman/Idler arms would be messing with the front suspension geometry. Bump and Roll steer would suffer the most. You can get a drop center link, but the ends will most likely be in the same OEM location with only the center section being lowered. they were mostly built to provide oil pan clearance for Drag cars back in the day....
The Early cars of the 60's, 70's and some of the 80's where bad enough, but to be messing with the steering geometry. You are going to be making a change where Bump/Roll Steer will be impacted.. If you have not heard what this is about, I suggest you try researching.
For a A-body, B-Body spindles and short upper A-Arms were one conversion the help eliminated positive Camber while going around a turn. But the Steering arm changed the geometry and does add some Bump Steer, but many (as I have done this convertsion) find the added value of eliminating Positive Camber out weights the small bit of added bump steer.
When you drop/lower your car with wtih springs or drop spindle.. you do cause some impact to the Steering geometry. For straight line racing, this may not be so much of an issue. But for a street or road/Auto-x racer.... this is important to be getting your steering geometry correct. Getting a correctly designed drop spindle is a plus (steering arm location). But them short A-Arms are a problem that caused positive camber while going around a turn under load.
Just something to consider...
If you get a "good" dropped spindle, your steering geometry should not change at all! If you mod the center link in any way that puts the tie rod ends in a different position, you are altering the geometry which will most likely have undesirable effects. The tie rod ends are where they are for a reason [the best GM could do back in those days]. But, as Bczee suggests, it is up to you if you are willing to trade one effect for another.
Rob
Rob
I understand all of this, my main question that everyone is skirting is......why do some A bodies have the centerlink almost 2 1/4 inches ABOVE the bottom of the crossmember, and yet on other cars it sits flush with the bottom of the crossmember? It seems every car is different, even identical cars of the same year, with "stock" rebuilt suspension. It makes no sense to me.....the only thing i can attribute it to is that crappy aftermarket companies are making rebuild kits with incorrect center links, pitman arms, or idler arms, or all of the above. Some cars have no problem with the oilpan-center link interference, some hit by a mile. Theoretically, a 67 chevelle with stock front suspension shouldn't have a center link sitting 2" above the "bash gaurd" of the crossmember, when there is another identical 67 next to it that dosen't have this condition. Ive checked 20+ cars among buddies and other people, and everybodies car is different. Has to be quality control on rebuild parts, cause there isnt a verticle adjustment on the idler or pitman arm when putting that stuff on....
One thing that I can think of is that over time the weight of the engine pulls the frame rails together and there by pushing the cradle down. I think you would be able to tell because of an excessive number of shims required to set caster/camber (between the control arm and frame). I have seen cars that had to be chained on the frame rack and the center crossmember pushed upwards so that they could be aligned properly. If the frame rails are together then theoretically the drag link should be closer to touching in the center. On my 70 the drag link clears by maybe 1/2-3/4 of an inch. I have yet to fit my engine to see what problems I may have.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Great info! So....I am pretty much convinced that an A-body specific oil pan with notches for center-link clearance is the most suitable solution besides raising the motor. I believe that the Autokraft LS pan has the most going for it... Who is up for innundating AutoKraft with demand for a A-body oil Pan? 
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
I thought the same thing but rather than just lowering the steering arm, pull it forward about couple inches. Fore and aft doesn't affect bumpsteer as long as it is level across the tie rods. There are factory cars I have seen with quite an angle on the tie rods but still level across so that should work on our cars too. All you'd need is a shorter pitman arm and shorter idler arm. Seems like that would solve the oil pan problems and let folks drop the engines lower for better tranny clearance.
