Not sure where to start with the wires?
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Not sure where to start with the wires? So This weekend my LS1 will be ready to be mounted into the car...except for the wiring.
I have the stock harness from my motor. I would like to have it re-worked or buy one that is all setup for my swap.
here some specs for the swap:
1963 Chevy II w/2002 camaro LS1
Chassis works front clip
no AC
power steering
4L60e trans
two 12" spal fans
no cats
long tube headers with the O2 at the flange
battery in the trunk
ecu will be mounted inside the glove
don't know rear rim or tire size yet
didn't buy any gauges yet
I am leaning toward an ebay harness but I am not sure how inferior it will be to a Painless harness that is double the price.
What would you guys do?
I have the stock harness from my motor. I would like to have it re-worked or buy one that is all setup for my swap.
here some specs for the swap:
1963 Chevy II w/2002 camaro LS1
Chassis works front clip
no AC
power steering
4L60e trans
two 12" spal fans
no cats
long tube headers with the O2 at the flange
battery in the trunk
ecu will be mounted inside the glove
don't know rear rim or tire size yet
didn't buy any gauges yet
I am leaning toward an ebay harness but I am not sure how inferior it will be to a Painless harness that is double the price.
What would you guys do?
Standalone harness is the way to go. What makes them nice is that (depending on whose you buy) they will only interface with the painless harness with switched and constant power. That way, if you have a problem with the nova headlights, heater, etc. you wont have to go ripping into the engine harness to diagnose it. Reworking a stock harness yourself will save you some money, but if you are going to send it out, why not just get a complete BRAND NEW harness for 450, instead of having something that is 8 years old reworked? Also, I would stay away from anything soldered together. Just my 2 cents.
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Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Thanks for the advice.
I guess the question I was getting at is:
Where would you guys buy your harness from?
and
What is the benefit of buying the branded harnesses that are priced much higher than the standalone harnesses sold through ebay?
Here is what I am talking about:
Ebay harness $450
Speartech $750
Painless $775
Fuel Injection Connection $490
S & P $975
I guess the question I was getting at is:
Where would you guys buy your harness from?
and
What is the benefit of buying the branded harnesses that are priced much higher than the standalone harnesses sold through ebay?
Here is what I am talking about:
Ebay harness $450
Speartech $750
Painless $775
Fuel Injection Connection $490
S & P $975
Last edited by theomms; Nov 10, 2009 at 02:48 PM.
Used the Tech Rod from ebay twice now, great harness, nice labeling, all new connectors and it has a 5 foot pigtail to mount your ECM under your dash. Shane is a great guy and will help you out. I will use him from now on......very nicely done harness for the money.
T,
T,
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Is it gonna be any different?
I have read a lot of good things about Speartech on here, surely there must be some reasoning behind the higher price point.
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What you have to look out for is what are you getting for the price? Make sure it includes all the connectors you want (eg does the price include the trans connector if you need it) if not how much more is it. I would also make sure whoever's harness you purchase is using quality parts, specifically Delphi/Packard Connectors and terminals not Chinese knockoffs. We were just at SEMA and there was a ton of Foreign companies touting their abilities to reverse engineer stuff. But reverse engineering is more than just putting something on a CMM and calling it a day. There are material and tolerance issues that must also be addressed.
Generally speaking you get what you pay for to an extent. Do I think 975 is too much for a harness, I dont know. Depends what you get with it. Is it loomed? Does it have a fuse/relay center? Does it make you cut apart your old harness because it is missing connectors? If the harness has extra length to go THROUGH the firewall, does it include a grommet for those purposes?
Last, I see numerous harnesses that tout soldered connections. I have a question, are any of the factory terminals in an TBI, TPI, LT1, LT4, LS1, LSX soldered? The answer is NO. Reason being is the GM connector/terminal design was meant to crimp the conductor and strain relief the insulation. Soldering only ensures that the wire has been rapidly heated and cooled and thereby made more brittle than it was before, making it more prone to failure down the road. In my humble opinion, soldering should be left for PCBs. Sorry about the ranting. Good luck on finding the right harness.
Generally speaking you get what you pay for to an extent. Do I think 975 is too much for a harness, I dont know. Depends what you get with it. Is it loomed? Does it have a fuse/relay center? Does it make you cut apart your old harness because it is missing connectors? If the harness has extra length to go THROUGH the firewall, does it include a grommet for those purposes?
Last, I see numerous harnesses that tout soldered connections. I have a question, are any of the factory terminals in an TBI, TPI, LT1, LT4, LS1, LSX soldered? The answer is NO. Reason being is the GM connector/terminal design was meant to crimp the conductor and strain relief the insulation. Soldering only ensures that the wire has been rapidly heated and cooled and thereby made more brittle than it was before, making it more prone to failure down the road. In my humble opinion, soldering should be left for PCBs. Sorry about the ranting. Good luck on finding the right harness.
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+1 for multiple times with techrods and only complaint is the customer service a little as far as ordering. Multiple harnesses have worked fine without any issue though, which is the important part. Indirectly dealt with some major harness issues from one of the "other guys"....that offer good customer service.
Pick a techrods harness up off ebay and save a few bucks. You will love it when you start hooking it up.
Mine was really simple 4 wire hookup. For the price you cant beat it. It's not gonna be any different but the price. good luck
I've never bought a harness from him but Jesse Bubb says he'll do the box and the harness for $300 - you supply him your factory harness and PCM
http://www.wait4meperformance.com
I've bought a couple of tunes from him and was satisfied. YMMV
If you want factory quality, why don't you rework the harness yourself? It isn't that hard and there are lots of websites that tell you how. I'm pretty leary of anybody's claim that their aftermarket harness is better than a factory one. There is a lot of engineering that goes into a harness and a guy with a box of Weatherpack connectors, a Packard crimper and a nail board to lay out the harness doesn't rise to the level of engineering sophistication and reliability I'm looking for in my project. I'd rather rework my factory one and know it was done right. I've done three and they each cost me about $50 in shrink tube, barrel connectors, solder, loom and relays.
http://www.wait4meperformance.com
I've bought a couple of tunes from him and was satisfied. YMMV
If you want factory quality, why don't you rework the harness yourself? It isn't that hard and there are lots of websites that tell you how. I'm pretty leary of anybody's claim that their aftermarket harness is better than a factory one. There is a lot of engineering that goes into a harness and a guy with a box of Weatherpack connectors, a Packard crimper and a nail board to lay out the harness doesn't rise to the level of engineering sophistication and reliability I'm looking for in my project. I'd rather rework my factory one and know it was done right. I've done three and they each cost me about $50 in shrink tube, barrel connectors, solder, loom and relays.
Last, I see numerous harnesses that tout soldered connections. I have a question, are any of the factory terminals in an TBI, TPI, LT1, LT4, LS1, LSX soldered? The answer is NO. Reason being is the GM connector/terminal design was meant to crimp the conductor and strain relief the insulation. Soldering only ensures that the wire has been rapidly heated and cooled and thereby made more brittle than it was before, making it more prone to failure down the road. In my humble opinion, soldering should be left for PCBs. Sorry about the ranting. Good luck on finding the right harness.
Whenever 2+ wires were spliced into a common (ground etc) they were put into a large crimp and coated in solder before being wrapped in black duct tape stuff. They stopped that in the mid 90's for the solid tubes with clear-ish or cream adhesive. Ive never cut one open but I can assume the the wires arent simply twisted together. I can take a pic but Im sure you wont believe it
Actually GM did solder quite a few wires in its day
Whenever 2+ wires were spliced into a common (ground etc) they were put into a large crimp and coated in solder before being wrapped in black duct tape stuff. They stopped that in the mid 90's for the solid tubes with clear-ish or cream adhesive. Ive never cut one open but I can assume the the wires arent simply twisted together. I can take a pic but Im sure you wont believe it
Whenever 2+ wires were spliced into a common (ground etc) they were put into a large crimp and coated in solder before being wrapped in black duct tape stuff. They stopped that in the mid 90's for the solid tubes with clear-ish or cream adhesive. Ive never cut one open but I can assume the the wires arent simply twisted together. I can take a pic but Im sure you wont believe it
You are correct they did solder in many earlier wiring designs where they were junctioning heavy power or ground but they have gone away from it because when fatigued, solder joints fail. Moving forward they have gone crimp connectors that are polyolefin lined. Once crimped, the connector is heated and when in shrinks the polyolefin spooges out (for lack of a better term) making an environmentally sealed splice. FYI, I wasnt talking about specifically talking about splices I was talking about terminal crimps (Packard/Delphi/Etc).
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Thats a metric TON of minute solders on tiny connectors which wont fit with excess mass on them. Doubtful they solder each individual terminal to every connector, and why would they? Factory did not and those never pull out unless they are put in a bind
I concur 100% pocket. Just telling you how it reads in my opinion. To a lamen they might think it is in someway better when in actuality it isnt.
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