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The Yellow Submarine goes Nuclear - LS2/T56 Miata

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Old 01-14-2017, 12:00 PM
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Default Some more goodies

Parts Ordered & Arrived



Fuse Block – Really happy with this guy, the Littlefuse HWB60 (middle left). Tiny, can hold 30 fuses, and pretty unobtrusive. Metri-pack 280 format and it came with a bunch of connectors and seals (left bottom). I think it will fit nicely here with the Nissan relay box above it.

Box is Littlefuse HWB60
16-18awg female (with tang) is Delphi 12077411, Green seals are Delphi 15324982
12-14awg female (with tang) is Delphi 12129493, Gray seals are Delphi 15324980
10-12awg female (with tang) is Delphi 12077413, Blue seals are Delphi 15324981
Dummy plugs are Delphi 12010300

Fuse Box Buss Clips – From cycleterminal (great shop for factory connectors!) I grabbed these little 6 position bridge clips (bottom row center) to try and make a rear feed buss bar setup for the littlefuse box. Ordered some extra terminals too just in case.

Spare hole plugs for littlefuse – wanted to make sure I had enough, got a 100 of the Delphi #12010300 off eBay cheap (middle center).

Parts Arrived

Relay Boxes with Relays – The two off eBay arrived (top row). Big one is off a '98 Infinity QX4 and the smaller is off an early 90's Nissan Maxima. The bonus is the mounting on the QX4 box, looks like it will make it pretty simple to install with a little bracket.

Spigot Rings – Fresh from Latvia! (right bottom) Just a hair big on the outer and small on the inner.. perfect so I can sand them to fit.



MSSS Transducers– Look good, and made me laugh with “10 watts max.” labeled on them, I think I am pushing 30-45 watts to them in the black car and will likely do the same here.



China-bay Fender Roller - looks good for $39, should be able to clearance for the big R1R’s.

Seats– Found a fairly cheap set of 95 M editions that need new skins, a perfect starting point for my custom-and-yet-looks-factory seat plans. How do you ship a pair of seats from Jersey to Michigan you wonder? In a box like this:



I pity my FedEx guy. Shipping was $73 from NJ to Mi, not terrible. Once un-boxed, you get actual seats:



So, I dug out almost all my seats (not pictured are the original custom black leather 92 seats the Sub came with) to do a little comparison.



Left to right:

Stock 90 cloth Passenger (waterfall style front, no seat belt receiver - got in trade for loaning the timing belt tools)
Stock 90 cloth Driver (waterfall style front, no seat belt receiver - got in trade for loaning the timing belt tools)
Severe foamectomied (by me) 97 cloth Passenger (bullnose style front, seat belt receiver removed - from my crashed '97 Montego, was the DD seat in the Sub)
Severe foamectomied (by me) 97 cloth Driver (bullnose style front, seat belt receiver removed - from my crashed '97 Montego, was the DD seat in the Sub)
Stock 95 M edition leather Passenger (bullnose style front, seat belt receiver removed - Miata.net forum purchase)
Stock 95 M edition leather Driver (bullnose style front, seat belt receiver removed - Miata.net forum purchase)
Stock 94 cloth Passenger (bullnose style front, seat belt receiver attached - pulled from a gutted 94 shell I bought and scrapped)





I suspected the M seats were a little taller, and it looks like about a thumb-width.

Interesting also is the upper back cushion, the cloth seats have a removable piece that goes in the center part, the leather it’s basically just the material and the cushion appears to be part of the larger back piece. I’ll know more when I strip them down.

Going to work on more wiring stuff this weekend, probably try to get the boxes mounted and start laying out wires after that.
Old 01-16-2017, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Wallyman
Test Fire – Confirmed with HotRodTherapy that he didn’t do any programming on the ECM, so I’m boned to test fire it as planned until I get it shipped to Vengeance to do it. I’m not sure where it all went to crap, but I thought he was going to pull out VATS for me so I could test fire crap. Just another delay. Talked with Vengeance and they only do a “limp it to the tuner” tune setup, which seems.. well.. lame, stupid and a ripoff. I’m guessing I could limp it to a tuner on the factory tune, why did I pay $225 exactly? I thought it was to get me 95% of the way to tuned, since I bought their custom cam. Guess not. WTF.

New Questions

ECM Tuning – So I’m trying to find a tuner locally to deal with it, and the only people mentioned so far is Baker (who I feel wronged me and another guy on a tuning day the last time we were there. Qupted one price but forced to pay more at end of day). ZZP who is known for 3800 stuff shows LSx on their website but when they called me back they declined to take the work saying they aren’t ready for custom tuning on a cam. Uhhhh… then what exactly CAN you do for the LSx platform if you can’t do that?? Whatever. If anyone knows a good company or individual in the west Michigan/Grand Rapids area, PM me.
I apologize for any confusion when speaking with one of our staff members. We do always explain that the base calibration is to get your vehicle up and running/check for leaks/proper operation etc... Without actually being able to datalog your vehicle we cannot guarantee safety of your engine/proper operation.

It is also worth noting that the fees associated with the base/mail order calibration are APPLIED to the cost of your street/dyno tune.... IE you pay $225.00 for the mail order tune... When you show up for your street/dyno tune the fee would be the $590.00 listed price MINUS the original $225.00 already paid making your cost for the street/dyno tune $365.00.

At the end of the day we have your best interest in mind. This is certainly not a "rip off" as you put it. We would simply rather be safe than be sorry. Most all of our clients understand this and respect the fact we want to ensure your combination is trouble free and provides years of enjoyment moving forward.

Last edited by Ron@Vengeance; 01-16-2017 at 08:21 AM.
Old 01-16-2017, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
I apologize for any confusion when speaking with one of our staff members. We do always explain that the base calibration is to get your vehicle up and running/check for leaks/proper operation etc... Without actually being able to datalog your vehicle we cannot guarantee safety of your engine/proper operation.

It is also worth noting that the fees associated with the base/mail order calibration are APPLIED to the cost of your street/dyno tune.... IE you pay $225.00 for the mail order tune... When you show up for your street/dyno tune the fee would be the $590.00 listed price MINUS the original $225.00 already paid making your cost for the street/dyno tune $365.00.

At the end of the day we have your best interest in mind. This is certainly not a "rip off" as you put it. We would simply rather be safe than be sorry. Most all of our clients understand this and respect the fact we want to ensure your combination is trouble free and provides years of enjoyment moving forward.

Ron,

Thank you for the reply. I guess my expectations were/are unrealistic..? In my head (which is the issue) knowing that I am put your VRX4 cam into an otherwise stock long block with just LT headers and Z06 stock intake, I was not expecting this to be a band-aid but rather a 90%+ tune. I'm not doing compression changes, nitrous, turbo or anything else nutty. The usual basic bolt-ons. I assumed you guys have done at least one '06 GTO with that same setup (judging by the youtubes out there you have sold a lot!) and would be able to nail something much closer than "limp it to a tuner" with no reldline, no WOT. My perception appears to be off but now I know.

It is a nice incentive that the cam tuning costs is applied to the dyno tuning, but sadly I can't limp my car the 796 miles to your shop. I would gladly have you guys finish if you were close by as I am sure I will pay the same or more and get less locally. I certainly have no doubt you guys lean on safe vs. sorry. The gentlemen I talked to (who was very nice and very helpful) was clear it's not a run-n-done tune, it has to be finished by a tuner and I wasn't to drive the car hard until that was done. I get the safe vs. sorry in that statement (protecting you from guys that blow their crap up and blame you for a 'bad tune'), but I expected there was enough of historical knowledge in my very simple setup to get more than "limp". My perception wasn't accurate.

At this point, it is what it is and I'm moving forward.. the ECM is already boxed up sitting on the counter to come to you guys hopefully tomorrow to get the base tune I need to get the test fire done. Once the engine is in a running chassis, I will find someone close by to finish up because sadly I can't bring it to you due to distance. I'm looking forward to getting it running and enjoying it for those years you talk about. . I'll just need to find someone locally to do it, and right now the only choice at the top of the list is someone I'm not overly impressed with. Perhaps a trip to Detroit will be required.

Again, thank you for the reply, and I look forward to the tune that finally lets me fire this long-in-the-tooth project!

Wallyman
Old 01-17-2017, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Wallyman
Ron,

Thank you for the reply. I guess my expectations were/are unrealistic..? In my head (which is the issue) knowing that I am put your VRX4 cam into an otherwise stock long block with just LT headers and Z06 stock intake, I was not expecting this to be a band-aid but rather a 90%+ tune. I'm not doing compression changes, nitrous, turbo or anything else nutty. The usual basic bolt-ons. I assumed you guys have done at least one '06 GTO with that same setup (judging by the youtubes out there you have sold a lot!) and would be able to nail something much closer than "limp it to a tuner" with no reldline, no WOT. My perception appears to be off but now I know.

It is a nice incentive that the cam tuning costs is applied to the dyno tuning, but sadly I can't limp my car the 796 miles to your shop. I would gladly have you guys finish if you were close by as I am sure I will pay the same or more and get less locally. I certainly have no doubt you guys lean on safe vs. sorry. The gentlemen I talked to (who was very nice and very helpful) was clear it's not a run-n-done tune, it has to be finished by a tuner and I wasn't to drive the car hard until that was done. I get the safe vs. sorry in that statement (protecting you from guys that blow their crap up and blame you for a 'bad tune'), but I expected there was enough of historical knowledge in my very simple setup to get more than "limp". My perception wasn't accurate.

At this point, it is what it is and I'm moving forward.. the ECM is already boxed up sitting on the counter to come to you guys hopefully tomorrow to get the base tune I need to get the test fire done. Once the engine is in a running chassis, I will find someone close by to finish up because sadly I can't bring it to you due to distance. I'm looking forward to getting it running and enjoying it for those years you talk about. . I'll just need to find someone locally to do it, and right now the only choice at the top of the list is someone I'm not overly impressed with. Perhaps a trip to Detroit will be required.

Again, thank you for the reply, and I look forward to the tune that finally lets me fire this long-in-the-tooth project!

Wallyman

I guess I have not explained it as well as I would like..... The mail order tune may in fact be 95% spot on, but without data logging all parameters to ensure this is the case we encourage clients to avoid WOT/heavy load situations until they can visit us/their tuner.
Old 01-17-2017, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
I guess I have not explained it as well as I would like..... The mail order tune may in fact be 95% spot on, but without data logging all parameters to ensure this is the case we encourage clients to avoid WOT/heavy load situations until they can visit us/their tuner.
Ron - That sounds better. Thanks! I'm printing the info and taping the box this morning.

Wallyman
Old 02-26-2017, 09:33 PM
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Red face

A long overdue update with some progress. I’m not making the headway as fast as I hoped but I am making headway so that’s something.

Build Update:

Parts Ordered & Arrived
(top left)
Brake Proportioning Valve - Originally bought for the Mustang, the unit I got was crappy. Sent a note to Baer and they promised a free replacement after solving their quality issues. Sure enough, one arrived! BEAUTIFUL piece.

(top right)
ARP Harmonic Pulley Bolt - Needed to replace the bolt so I upgraded to an ARP unit. 235 ft/lb spec, makes me laugh! I stood on the 2’ cheater bar until the motor started to lift from it. Best I can do should be good enough.

(bottom)
Stereo Equalizer - I love old school stereo gear. I’ve been using the Kenwood KGC-6042A in most of my cars for the last 5-7 years, but the last 3 I have bought all had issues. I’m trying a different unit this time, a Pioneer EQ-6500. Same features, but a bit more rare to locate. Patience paid off and I landed a unit off eBay.



(top left)
Fuses - Needed some for the new fuse box.

(top right)
Headlight bump stops - The factory ones don’t seem to be able to be ordered anymore, so I managed to find some suitable replacements. More info later.

(bottom left)
Male spade terminals - Need these for the Nissan relay sockets. Worked well enough.

(bottom center)
AC Firewall Grommets - Can’t get the NA units new anymore, but found a set of nice used ‘00s that look to be able to work.

(bottom right)
Wiring Studs - I needed a way to marry the 2AWG from the rear to the front fuse/relay stuff as well as a common ground point. Ordered up 2 red (one for Battery and one for Ignition) and 1 black. Stainless hardware, 5/16” stud…Look good. Swapped out the 1-1/4” bolts for 1-1/2” to give me a little more stud to work with.

Old 02-26-2017, 09:35 PM
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Powder coating Samples - I’ve decided that if I am doing the car, I am doing every bloody thing I want. I’m ditching the HDHCHTDDwHB rollbar and moving to a Blackbird Fabworks NA GT3 bar. It’s different, it’s cool.. I want one. Custom Powder coating is an option (and I’m taking it!) so I spoke with Moti and ordered some samples. Blackbird’s powder coater uses Cardinal Powder coating for the basic colors, and Prismatic for every possible color under the sun. I want something gunmetal and it will be the anchor color for a lot of other things. For the moment I’m staring at (what seems like) 50 shades of gray. More details later.

NA6 Tan Glovebox - The last piece I needed for the tan dash. The color on the first one I found was a lot darker on the lid. The latch was a pretty good match for the dash. So, bought another one and it showed up busted. Third one came in, same color issue. Rolled the dice on one last unit (which has a cracked bucket) but the color looks better. Will know once I get them cleaned up which is the best match.

NA6 Tan Seatbelts - Need to change belts out to tan as part of the interior work, these are one option, need to clean them up to see how nice they are.

NA8 Tan Seatbelts - Another option, have two sets of these. I cleaned up a set and they look good but need to clean up the other options to see how nice each set is.

Chrome factory door handles - So, my friend Steve is a wonderfully terrible influence! He is a true car guy, dyed in the wool. He has a great eye for detail and for creating a harmonious vision of the whole car. Once I opened Pandora’s box with the Blackbird rollbar being gunmetal, he started tossing other ideas into my head. He suggested powder coating all the bright work to match (Door handles, fuel door, Frankenstein plates, hood latches)… evil he is! So, I got a set of handles ‘just in case’ I listen to him.

Aerocatch Latches - Necessary to run the Z06 Intake, got them in flat black with the option to paint/powder coat to match the rollbar. They look good in black, and may stay that way.. we shall see.

Chrome Flush Fuel Door - Another ‘Evil Steve just in case’ spare to powdercoat. If not, it goes on the 94.

Trunk Felt Pieces (all 3) - The mice trashed my old pieces, so needed to replace them. Black. Felt. Boring.
Old 02-26-2017, 09:38 PM
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Parts Arrived
Clutch Kit - I was warned Maryland Speed was not speedy.. and they lived down to that expectation. 7 Weeks it took to get all of the pieces. But, they did arrive so whatever. All of it looks good.

Flywheel, 18 lb. of goodness:





Pressure Plate, Mean-n-Green:



Clutch disc good for 550 lb.



Hydraulic Slave, Pilot Bearing, Alignment Tool and dowels (didn’t use the big ones, used little ones not shown)



V8R Long Tube Headers - They look good.





Also, they cause a conflict with the GTO starter. GAWD I hate this motor. Children, listen.. don’t buy a GTO LS2 pullout!!!!



Going to swap out the bellhousing and starter and be done with it, so sick of the nickel and dime (or $350-400 in this case) BS.

Speedhut Gauges - Came in, look sweet. Speedo has an issue but they are printing a new face and shipping to me. Ran them on the DD, excited to get them in the car. Going to be a VERY tight fit in the cluster hole but will figure it out.

Teaser Photo.. will post a good one when I have them a little more together.



Nose Splitter - Replaced the one I swiped for the 94.
Old 02-26-2017, 09:51 PM
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Parts Ordered
Blackbird Racing NA GT3 Rollbar - Dropped the hammer on the bar, very excited about this! Going for a gunmetal color, more on that later.

Clutch Slave Shims - Put in the new Monster Stage 2 setup and measured for shims. Needs it, more later.

Work Performed
Headlight Bump Stops - Did some digging once I took measurements and found usable search words, and came across these:

http://jwwinco.com/products/section7/gn352/index.html

Specifically part# 352-20-10-M6-S-55 and 352-20-15-M6-S-55. I placed an order for 12 of each (spares!) and am happy to report they will work.

Dimensions:
(top) Stock is 15mm wide bumper head, 8mm bumper height, 28mm overall length (bumper plus threads), M6x1.0 thread
(middle) Option 1 is 20mm wide head, 10mm bumper height, 28mm overall length, M6x1.0 thread
(bottom) Option21 is 20mm wide head, 15mm bumper height, 33mm overall length, M6x1.0 thread

The nuts on the studs are just so they would lay properly for photos.



Fuse/Relay Block Mount - Played with the welder and whipped up the mount, came out nice. This changes my wire tuck plan too. Was able to tweak, adjust and modify and it is looking good. Still need to finish but it is coming along nicely. Definitely 10 pounds of crap in a 5 pound bag, but getting close.

50 Shades of Gray - So here we have the samples… Initially I wanted something in the medium gray (“Gunmetal” was the color I wanted but what does that really mean?) and after getting these samples I realized I wanted similar to the SSR Type-C wheels I had (the originals) but without the blue tint to them. The 17’s came in ‘refinished’ in a nice shade so I worked off that and found a pretty spot on match.

The first 4 samples, Cardinal colors. The bottom left is Moti’s recommendation, GR02, which is the color they use for all their custom pieces apparently. It has a beautiful metal flake to it, but I felt it was just too dark (look at it against my black soft top farther down). I also requested some other grays from Cardinal but they were too industrial and plain.



So then I found my way over to Prismatic’s site.. holy *****, there are a ton of gorgeous colors!! I requested 5 samples in shades I thought might work.



Here the contenders are against the 17” SSR.



Lighting really messes with how they photograph but ultimately the color I chose is second from the right. As you can see it’s a damn good match to the 17” SSRs.



So, up against my black soft top, you can see how the GR02 (the big one) looks fairly black. I am sure in sunlight it’s a different animal but I wanted something slightly lighter. My pick is the second small from the left.



I wanted to make sure I had it right so I fabbed up a little fake bar action, and amazing Rustoleum Gray Hammered paint is a pretty damn close shade match. So $10 later I had a fake rollbar in a very similar color.

Other than no metal flake, it’s pretty close to the wheels:



Against the fake bar:



And the money shot:



That last shot has some of the tan interior just plopped into place to try and approximate what I will see. So hard to visualize the car as tan without it. Rollbar cover color and top boot color are still TBD.
Old 02-26-2017, 09:51 PM
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Test Fire - Hells Yeah! Finally fired the engine after 6 years and 4 months since purchase. Open shorty headers, and minus the clutch stuff. Fired right up, one loud-n-lumpy ****. No drama, no bad noises, no weird smoke, Let it run for 10-15 seconds at a time and started it 4 times total. Gauges wouldn't talk at all, so thinking I have a OBD port issue but will figure that out in a while. Video forthcoming.
Old 02-26-2017, 11:50 PM
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Great to see progress! I badly want an LS swapped FD3 but the Miata is far cheaper and at least as fun - it may be what I end up with :-) Appreciate all the details too, thanks!
Old 02-27-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wallyman
Test Fire - Hells Yeah! Finally fired the engine after 6 years and 4 months since purchase. Open shorty headers, and minus the clutch stuff. Fired right up, one loud-n-lumpy ****. No drama, no bad noises, no weird smoke, Let it run for 10-15 seconds at a time and started it 4 times total. Gauges wouldn't talk at all, so thinking I have a OBD port issue but will figure that out in a while. Video forthcoming.

Yeah, good stuff!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cz3...PS1CGQ/preview

If anyone knows how to imbed a google video, PM me.
Old 03-12-2017, 08:52 PM
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Default Dropping some Knowledge

Dropping some Knowledge:

Headers - So, this is for anyone else that is curious how the old school shorties compare to brand new V8Roadster Long Tubes. I don’t have all the photos for the LT’s installed (cam battery died when I was working on it) but the engine will come back out again soon and I can get some more photos.

Shorties:



Left Shorty to ’06 GTO LS2 Bellhousing clearance:



Right Shorty to ’06 GTO LS2 Bellhousing clearance:



Left Shorty to Subframe clearance:



Left Longtube to ’06 GTO LS2 Bellhousing clearance:



Right Longtube to ’06 GTO LS2 Bellhousing clearance:



Left Longtube to Subframe clearance:



Right Longtube to Subframe clearance:

Old 03-12-2017, 08:55 PM
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Default Further Knowledge

Further Knowledge:

Bellhousings - For anyone curious about the differences between a 2006 GTO LS2-T56 bellhousing vs. 2002 Camaro LS1-T56 bellhousing, here is what I found:

2006 GTO LS2 Bellhousing casting info:


2002 Camaro LS1 Bellhousing casting info:



2002 Camaro LS1 bellhousing box label:



Outline comparison of GTO Bellhousing (Red) vs. Camaro Bellhousing (Black):




Camaro Bellhousing on top of GTO outline:



Close-up of difference in outlines:



Close-up of difference with Camaro bell on top:



So, essentially a 1/2” drop in the starter location which opens the door to pretty much any non-GTO LS-whatever starter I think.
Old 03-12-2017, 09:06 PM
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Build Update:

Parts Ordered &Arrived

Top Alignment Nips - Some maintenance items, the top undoubtedly needs a new set.. and who doesn’t love a pair of fresh hard and uncracked nips?

Camaro Bellhousing - Ordered the T56 bellhousing from the 2002 Camaro LS1 to solve the longtube/starter interference issue. Managed to find a brand new in the box unit for $245 shipped. It arrived in a Tremec box (label says 1386-212-005) but the casting on the housing is 13-86-212 with the last three digits 905 hand-written. Odd, but that matches all the photos of it I have seen. I covered the bellhousing photos above.

Suburban Starter (again) - Since I am moving to the Camaro bellhousing, the GTO starter gets tossed. Ordered up the smallest starter I know of which is for a 2007 Suburban with the 5.3. Got it from Autozone, the Duralast DL9949S which has a lifetime warranty. Ship to home, 20% off, free shipping and a $10 gift card means I got it for $130.55. Unfortunately, I am still pretty tight on the header.. more on that coming later.

Interesting tidbit - the first one I bought was a larger housing, NOT the same as what I am using. It was more like the truck unit. I have to go back to AZ and will try to get a photo of the two side by side. It was the same part number but would not have worked.

Parts Arrived

Blackbird Racing NA GT3 Rollbar - Like tubular ****, this bar is gorgeous! The color is exactly what I wanted. Moti is an artist and packages it like it was made from glass. Arrived without a single issue from Cali to Michigan. This is how you ship a rollbar and make sure it arrives minty fresh:











I didn’t unpack the entire thing because I am not at a point where I can install it yet, but I did peel back some of the foam and took some photos compared to the SSR Type-C (which is not an original SSR color, these wheels were repainted [badly]).



That is Prismatic Dark Silver Metallic, PMB-1222 with the Prismatic Clear Vision, PPS-2974 on top. Fuggin Gorgeous, nice amount of metal flake, should sparkle nice in sunlight. I am going to have the SSR’s refinished in it, as well as most likely some other bits… I’m still undecided on taking the color farther than wheels-n-bar but that seed is planted (damn you Steve!).





And all Blackbird bars come with this bitchin’ decal. I totally forgot to tell Moti a color, but black is perfect as I plan to run a black vinyl/leather cover on the main hoop and this will tie right in.



I'll have more and better photos as install comes closer.



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