Keep in mind that the LSA crank has an 8 bolt pattern, which may complicate matters.

Andrew

 

So, just to be clear, the Sachs 1050 is to run an old style clutch with a "short" crank?? Correct??

 

Michael, sweat no more, I'm using the same setup in believe it a 1969 Camaro as well with a .400 a extended crank.

Here's your saving grace:
https://www.mcleodracing.com/index.p...h_visibility=1
Its drilled for either a SBC/BBC 11" or 12 LS style clutch.

I'm gonna try using my Lakewood scatershield, with my 6.0 LS engine mated to a Tremec TKO600 but with a mechanical clutch.
I believe that the crank extending out .400 is the same as a 2 pc. SBC so I think the geometry should be close to the same. Some problems are the header interference with the Z bar and adjustments/elongation to the pedal linkage. If all else fails then I'll reluctantly drop the dough and go with hydraulic.
Hope it helps.
Simon

 

NICE!!! Good the ball will be rolling now, Now i can proceed and look at my clutch options!

Are you going to get the liberty gears TKO upgrade kit for your tremec? I just got mine in.

Michael Rock

 

https://www.lmperformance.com/cart.a...part_id=834644

(Mcloud 460537) Found one if anyone else needs one that is doing something similar for a little over 300 shipped, not bad really to save some headaches.
Michael Rock

 

I haven't gotten as far a buying the TKO, don't know whether I need it since my motor will be around the 500hp range but will consider it down the road.
Keep us posted on whether you use mechanical or hydraulic setup.

 

I'm currently working on a pull type hydraulic slave system that will bolt on the TKO case and going with the f-body master cylinder.
I do not want a concentric slave cylinder, I hate having to pull the trans for a bad slave cylinder. And there too expensive.
I can probably do the entire hydraulic conversion for around $200

Michael Rock.

 

Mike don't forget to take some pics and post, I might need to use your setup if my mechanical clutch engineering doesn't work out. $200 certainly doesn't break the bank.

 

Started a build Thread. Will put more pics coming up. Always stuck offshore at work...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/chevrolet...-ls-build.html

Michael Rock

 

SM465 to 4.8/5.3 LS with Hydraulic Throw-Out Bearing:

*This should work for any old school Muncie or Saginaw to LS.

Parts List:
- SBC Truck Bellhousing. You will use 5 bolts.
- 1050 Flywheel
- LS2 Pilot Bearing
- Flywheel Bolts (different than Flexplate bolts!)
- Clutch and Pressure Plate that matches the transmission. Generic truck stuff that fits the big bellhousing SBC.
- Metric LS Pressure Plate Bolts
- Speedway Hydraulic TO Bearing Kit: 910-25610
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-St...ring,1945.html

I used a carpenters sliding square to take these measurements.

Measurements:
- Bell to TO Bearing face: 5"9/16
- Bell to PP Fingers: 2"13/16
- SM465 mounting face to input shaft tip: 6"9/16
- SM465 mounting face to input shaft end of splines: 5"9/16
- SM465 mounting face to bearing retainer end of sleeve: 3"1/4

Assemble as needed.

Notes:
- For this setup bury the TO Bearing DEEP to avoid interference with the input shaft.
- If your Flywheel has the centering perimeter keys remove or cut them off. They will not work on a truck PP.
- Drill the Pressure Plate bolt holes out to fit the LS metric bolts. IIRC 3/8.
- The Speedway TO Bearing took 3 shims for proper spacing.
- It is a 1 Ton PP and Clutch, don't overthink "upgrades", it will hold.

Easy old school setup with the convenience of a hydraulic TO bearing.

 

GM T5 from a Gen4 F-Body to 4.8/5.3 LS with Hydraulic Throw-Out Bearing:

Parts List:
- SBC Truck Bellhousing. You will use 5 bolts.
- F Body T56 Flywheel
- Flywheel Bolts (different than Flexplate bolts!)
- LS2 Pilot Bearing
- F Body T56 Clutch Disk
- F Body T56 Pressure Plate
- (LS7 Fly/PP/Clutch setup should work as well if you want the best)
- LS Pressure Plate Bolts
- T5 to Muncie pattern adapter from Hot Rod Works PN 2120
http://www.hotrodworks.com/product/f...ssion-adapter/
- Early S10/Camaro T5 Input Shaft Bearing Retainer. You need to convert from hydraulic (T56) style to a sliding TO Bearing. Easy to find used or new for under $40.
- Speedway Hydraulic TO Bearing Kit: 910-25610
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-St...ring,1945.html
- Threaded bar stock 5"ish as you will need to make an Input Shaft Bearing Retainer bolt in metric as the Speedway kit is STD thread. Or butcher a long bolt in your extra parts bin.
- Extra shims, 15 needed in all. 10 in the original kit.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Howe-...Kit,52309.html

Ensure your T5 is up to the task of holding 350-400HP! It is cheap insurance to make sure it is right when out of the car/swap.
- Bronze shift fork pads for the 1-2 and 3-4 sliders. 4 pieces is all you need. (5th has an easy life, its pads always look fine - leave stock)
- 5speeds.com Countergear Stabalizer Retainer. (The cheap Ebay one does not work in a GM or Ford, total crap!)
http://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.ph...&product_id=61
- Input Shaft bearing spacer to eliminate mainshaft play.
http://www.5speeds.com/cart/index.ph...product_id=113

I used a carpenters sliding square to take these measurements.

Measurements:
- Bell + Adapter to TO Bearing face: 6"1/8 (ideally, you want this at about 6")
- Bell + Adapter to PP Fingers: 3"9/16
- T5 mounting face to input shaft tip: 7"1/8
- T5 mounting face to input shaft end of splines: 5"3/4
- T5 mounting face to bearing retainer end of sleeve: 4"3/16

Assemble as needed.

Notes:
- For this setup bury the TO Bearing Medium/Half-Way to avoid interference with the input shaft.
- As noted before, make metric stud for TO Bearing.
- The Speedway TO Bearing took 15 shims for proper spacing.

Lots of extra parts on this conversion. But still cheaper than a T56!!! AND the T5 is a smaller format for conversions.

FWIW in the Volvo (small tire and low gears) world a T5 is good for 11s in the quarter. YMMV.

Easy!.. With some extra parts.

 

Coming Soon: Ford T5 to LS!
(Just because I want to see if it could work - making haters cry)

Give me a week to rebuild the Ford T5 proper as parts are in the mail... Waiting... Waiting...
(But the Ford T5 is headed for the Volvo 960 whiteblock swap. No intentions of it living behind an LS in this case.)

 

Could I get a clarification on the adapter plate?
I was under the impression the V8 F body T5s had the Muncie style bolt pattern, just canted 15 degrees. Only the V6 F body T5s used the Ford pattern. If this is for the V6 T5s, don't they have a different splined input shaft from the T56?

 

Lots of misinformation out there on these T5s. Let me help a bit. I stumbled into this Gen4 T5 for $100, so I couldn't say no and had to figure it out for myself.

The Gen4 V-6 T5 has a Ford T5 pattern.

The early Camaro V-8 WC-T5 had a straight up Muncie pattern. Really those should be an easy swap, see above SM465 setup. But they are hard to find in my area or cost prohibitive. Gen4 T5s usually go for 150ish, no one knows what to do with them.

Yes, the Gen4 T5 is canted to the drivers side. With the LS / SBC Bell it is put in the upright position. But the rear trans mount will need changed to accommodate. No biggie.

The Gen4 T5 has the same 27 spline input shaft. Clutches are easy to swap over.

I also suspect the Gen4 T5 and T56 share the same Hydraulic TO Bearing, but I have not had my hands on one to verify.

Hopefully that helped. Really with the Gen4 T5 price point for a WC unit and the now available adapter plate it is an easy swap. Without the adapter this would be a no-go.

Here are my no=BS price points if this helps motivating or depressing - you be the judge:

- Stage 2 Flywheel and PP from CL $100
- Stock GM T56 Gen4 Clutch Disc Ebay $50
- Bellhousing Ebay $65
- Adapter $200
- GM LS2 Pilot $20
- ARP Flywheel Bolts $30?
- ARP PP Bolts $30?
- Speedway Hydraulic TO Bearing kit $100
- Speedway remote bleeder kit $15
- Gen4 T5 Used $100
- Gen4 T5 Synchro Kit and Bronze pads $180
- 5Speeds countershaft kit and mainshaft shim kit $75

$965, $290 being fixed costs with either a T5 or T56 swap. I got spendy on making sure the T5 was in good shape, but if you have a clean T5 or just don't care you can save a few hundred.

To do it again... Mainly if I knew this would work in the first place... I would have purchased the new GM LS7 Fly/PP/Clutch kit for ~$300 and be done with it.

My logic on this: I can rebuild T5s all day long with a simple shop press. I cannot work on a T56, and they are about 2k here IF you can find one (plus 1st is not geared right for me and I do not need 6th). I have a small tire car that should handle 400HP Flywheel. The Volvo D30 rear end with G80 is topped out at about 400HP. So I have a matched set on the verge of breakage at all times. Having driven 400HP on the street, that is all I care to handle on a daily with 225 rears. Plus this should laydown 11-12s at the track (I think) which for normal people is scary fast.

All this for a POS $200 Volvo!!! LOLZ

 

Thanks for the clarification. I believe the earlier T5s for the 60 degree V6s had a different length and spline count input shaft.
So you're using a 3.8 T5?What gear ratios are in those?

 

I think this is the gear set for the Gen4 T5 is: 3.75 , 2.19 , 1.41 , 1.0 and .72

The early Gen3 Camaro V-6 Non-WC T5 was a different animal. IDK what input shaft it had. I think it did carry the Muncie pattern though.

I have a S10 Non-WC in the '71 C10, but I put it in so long ago I cannot recall what it is running for specs. Should be similar to the Gen3 Non-WC setup IIRC... It just goes, so I don't mess with it. Mechanical clutch on this one using the stock C10 parts. The downside, I had to run crappy shorty headers vs longtubes for clearance.

 

Tried contacting them with no luck. They reference a part number but its not on their site to purchase.

Michael Rock

 

A couple more questions.
With the spacer plate and input shaft length, do you use the small, inner groove T56 style pilot bearing or the LS7 large, outer groove bearing (used in Muncie swaps)?
Any reason a mechanical linkage clutch wouldn't work?

 

I have used this pilot bearing in all three swaps with success. IIRC it is an LS2 pilot bearing.

ACDelco CT1082 GM Original Equipment Manual Transmission Clutch Pilot Bearing

It is smooth on the outer and inner with no grooves... I may be missing the question as all pilot bearings I have seen are smooth bore...

 

Sorry should have used bore instead of groove. That's the outer bearing used in trucks, corvette, etc. The inner bore bushing is used on the 98-02 fbody..