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The oil pan shown in the images is the Holley 302-1. The Hooker 2nd-gen engine brackets center the engine in the subframe similar to the stock engine alignment in the 1st-gens (they are just barely off-center), so you need to have similar geometry in your engine brackets of the passenger side header will experience interference with the right side frame rail.
Awesome. I did exactly the same thing when I fabricated my frame mounts. I wish the Holley mounts had been around waaaay back in the day. They appear to be much more convenient than the route I took :-)
The oil pan shown in the images is the Holley 302-1. The Hooker 2nd-gen engine brackets center the engine in the subframe similar to the stock engine alignment in the 1st-gens (they are just barely off-center), so you need to have similar geometry in your engine brackets of the passenger side header will experience interference with the right side frame rail.
toddoky. I have a 79 camaro I am putting an ls in. I am keeping my t-10 trans. I know I need a 1 inch set back to keep the same trans location so I do not need to get a new driveshaft. I thought the mounts Holley made would work but after reading this thread I know I would have to nice my trans forward a small amount... if I used Holley 1 inch set back plates would I still be able to run the swap headers? How about z bar usage? Any reccomendation would help. I've been trying to call Holley for weeks and just have been sitting on hold
Todd, I have a strange combination I'd like to ask about. I'm picking up a '76 Firebird soon that has the Pontiac 400 and Super T10 4 speed stock. The engine is supposedly junk and I'd like to just get it back on the road without spending a whole lot, likely just by dropping in a stock 5.3 or 6.0. I would like to reuse the Super T10 however, and the question I have is that do your engine mounts keep the engine in the stock location bellhousing-wise, or does it shift the engine some towards the front or rear? Would the stock crossmember be adequate or would one of the Holley crossmembers be required to keep my 4 speed?
Todd, I have a strange combination I'd like to ask about. I'm picking up a '76 Firebird soon that has the Pontiac 400 and Super T10 4 speed stock. The engine is supposedly junk and I'd like to just get it back on the road without spending a whole lot, likely just by dropping in a stock 5.3 or 6.0. I would like to reuse the Super T10 however, and the question I have is that do your engine mounts keep the engine in the stock location bellhousing-wise, or does it shift the engine some towards the front or rear? Would the stock crossmember be adequate or would one of the Holley crossmembers be required to keep my 4 speed?
Your biggest issue is going to be finding headers that will work with your mechanical clutch linkage. The Hooker Blackheart 2nd-gen long tube headers will, but there will be other things for you to overcome in order to be able to use them. The Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets and headers work together, but they won’t work with your stock transmission crossmember since the Hooker engine mounting brackets and crossmembers are designed to center the engine in the chassis. Your stock crossmember and, the SB Chevy clamshell mounts it was designed to work with, offset the engine to the passenger side of the chassis (about 3/4” from what I remember). The Hooker Blackheart system also does not include a crossmember that will accomodate your transmission, so a custom crossmember would have to be fabricated, or your stock one would have to be modified to get the transmission mounted correctly. I don’t recall the fore/aft engine/transmission mating plane position that is provided by the Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets, but the is a 2nd-gen project car in the engineering lab right now that will allow me to take some reference measurements for you to work with.
Do you have any pictures of these headers/mounts installed on the 70-74 2nd gen? I have a 1973 bird and would like to see a side view of how low the headers hang down to get a perspective of how much clearance I will have. If you could also specify if the vehicle is stock height or lowered that would be awesome, as I have a 2" drop at all 4 corners.
Sorry if this has been posted already. I read through this entire post and only saw this view for later 2nd gens. I also just got off the phone with Holley Tech Support and they didn't have a pic handy. I've got this stuff in my Summit shopping cart and am dying to press the buy button, so please let me know !
Thanks!
Your biggest issue is going to be finding headers that will work with your mechanical clutch linkage. The Hooker Blackheart 2nd-gen long tube headers will, but there will be other things for you to overcome in order to be able to use them. The Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets and headers work together, but they won’t work with your stock transmission crossmember since the Hooker engine mounting brackets and crossmembers are designed to center the engine in the chassis. Your stock crossmember and, the SB Chevy clamshell mounts it was designed to work with, offset the engine to the passenger side of the chassis (about 3/4” from what I remember). The Hooker Blackheart system also does not include a crossmember that will accomodate your transmission, so a custom crossmember would have to be fabricated, or your stock one would have to be modified to get the transmission mounted correctly. I don’t recall the fore/aft engine/transmission mating plane position that is provided by the Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets, but the is a 2nd-gen project car in the engineering lab right now that will allow me to take some reference measurements for you to work with.
Thanks for the insight! It sounds like the most cost effective route will be a SBC swap then.
FYI, for the 2002 Firebird transmission mount recommended in the instructions does not work with the crossmember for my '73, it hits both the crossmember (tipping it forward) and spacer plate needed for early models. The mount cannot be rotated or it'll hit the pan, same for the crossmember, if you are going to use these I would get the Silverado or poly mount, see pic below. I've got a set of headers coming, will check back with the fit on those...
Do you have any pictures of these headers/mounts installed on the 70-74 2nd gen? I have a 1973 bird and would like to see a side view of how low the headers hang down to get a perspective of how much clearance I will have. If you could also specify if the vehicle is stock height or lowered that would be awesome, as I have a 2" drop at all 4 corners.
Sorry if this has been posted already. I read through this entire post and only saw this view for later 2nd gens. I also just got off the phone with Holley Tech Support and they didn't have a pic handy. I've got this stuff in my Summit shopping cart and am dying to press the buy button, so please let me know !
Thanks!
Here are some pics on my '73, LS1 with Hooker engine mounts, cross-member. They hang a lot lower than they should, by quite a bit. It's not the car, it's a 32,000 mile garage queen...guess these are going back...
What is the fore/aft difference compared to a stock sbc/Pontiac? I’m looking to run my stock Super T10 4spd behind my LS1 in my ‘79 Trans Am. I would like to have my shifter in the correct position and transmission sitting on my stock 4spd crossmember.
If you were wanting to achieve those fitment characteristics to be able to use your stock crossmember in a Camaro, I can tell you it won't work with using the Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets as you would need to use what is commonly called 1" setback mounts. The reason for that is an LS block is approximately 1-3/16" shorter than a SB Chevy block and the difference is all at the rear of the engine ( whereas the bellhousing mating plane of an LS block is even with the rear face of the passenger side cylinder head, the bellhousing mating plane of a SB Chevy block is offset rearward from the rear face of the passenger side cylinder head by the previously mentioned 1-3/16") and when you mate an LS up to a legacy transmission mounted in its stock position, the front of the LS block and the cylinder heads end up about an inch further back in the car than where they sat with the original SB Chevy.
While that can work to allow using the original transmission like you are wanting to do, it imposes fitment constrains on others wanting to use a late model automatic or manual transmission since they have larger fitment profiles than the legacy transmissions do, which is why the Hooker Blackheart 2nd-gen LS swap system is not designed to maintain the engine/transmission mating plane in the stock SB Chevy location (I'm not sure how that translates to the stock Pontiac installation as I've never evaluated the engine position of one of those cars to see what differences there may between the two cars in that regard).
The only references I can provide you with is this image I've posted here depicting the mounted position of an LS engine in a 2nd-gen using the Hooker Blackheart engine mounting brackets and the measured distance between the back of the passenger side cylinder head of the engine shown in the image and the firewall, which is 2.5".
I have a 1971 Camaro and planning an LS swap. Expect the car will set pretty low in the end so thinking ahead about header ground clearance. I need to put partial front floor pans in and was wondering if I should use the later 1975 up floor pans and the 75 up hooker engine mounts to get better ground clearance in the end.
Anyone used 1975 up floor pans in a 70-73 Camaro to get better exhaust clearance?
I have a 1971 Camaro and planning an LS swap. Expect the car will set pretty low in the end so thinking ahead about header ground clearance. I need to put partial front floor pans in and was wondering if I should use the later 1975 up floor pans and the 75 up hooker engine mounts to get better ground clearance in the end.
Anyone used 1975 up floor pans in a 70-73 Camaro to get better exhaust clearance?
You can use the 75 up Hooker headers either way, that's what I ended up doing in my 73 from a couple posts before. I'm using the 73 hooker engine mounts, but it would have worked with the 75 up mounts as well. I talked to a guy who does this for a living, they don't even use the early model stuff. My fit is perfect.
Thanks for that reply. I kind of like the idea of using the 70-73 mounts with 75 up headers. The 70-73 mounts should give lower COG as long as the 75 up headers fit with the lower mounts and still provide good ground clearance. Like I said I also don’t mind putting the later model floor pans in for more room if needed. I have to replace them anyway.
You can use the 75 up Hooker headers either way, that's what I ended up doing in my 73 from a couple posts before. I'm using the 73 hooker engine mounts, but it would have worked with the 75 up mounts as well. I talked to a guy who does this for a living, they don't even use the early model stuff. My fit is perfect.
So did I read this correctly, the 75 up ls swap headers fit better than the 70-74? I have the 70-74 ones on my 74 camaro now and they are very low and I am sure will hit the ground going over even the smallest speed bumps. I called Holley tech and they are clueless about this issue, why is that?
So did I read this correctly, the 75 up ls swap headers fit better than the 70-74? I have the 70-74 ones on my 74 camaro now and they are very low and I am sure will hit the ground going over even the smallest speed bumps. I called Holley tech and they are clueless about this issue, why is that?
Without a doubt, the '75 and up fit way better on my car, and according to many other sources who have gone thru this, Camaro guys too. I don't care for their tech line, and not just the waiting on hold forever part. The folks that answer your questions read off the instruction sheets, which are not always right (see my previous post about the trans mount they recommend not even close to working). I'd use the parts again, but feel bad for the seller who had to return the first set of headers. Here are some pics of the car now, a '73 with the 75+ headers, and couldn't be happier with the fit.
Geez.. Just came back across this thread after purchasing the HOK-2298-1HKR Headers back in March 2019. Looks like I'm stuck with the I'll fitting 1970-74 Hooker headers when I could have bought the 1975+ version that would actually fit on my 1973 car [facepalm] . This is also after having to send the first pair back because of bad packing/damage and even getting the 2nd pair back in just as bad of shape.
I used Holley components on most of my LS swap and most of it has been a good experience, but these headers have not been. Thanks Mooch for posting this info, hoping it saves someone else in the future $900 of frustration.
Another burn, they shouldn't even sell those. My car is up and running with no issues, to update how things shook out. Hope you can find a buyer for those as the newer ones fit so much better.
Although they will physically bolt to the heads, their geometry is not a good match to the raised ports of LS7 heads, which require LS7 specific flanges to keep from introducing a step at the roof at the port when the headers are installed. We have a 71' Camaro here right now that we are using to create a subframe drilling template to include in the kit for folks that will be installing the mounts on 70'-72' model year cars that came with frame stands. The mounts will go into production after that work in concluded, so you should see them become available between the 3rd and 4th week of next month.
Originally Posted by Toddoky
Thanks for bringing this back up Bill, I had forgotten about it. Following the previous post I made I had a chance to go back and revisit the set of LS7 heads I based my report on and realized they featured an aftermarket CNC port job that raised the roof of the ports; the stock LS7 heads feature the same port location as the other factory LS heads and the Hooker headers fit them as well.
This is going to be a relevant topic for me and my 1980 Z28. I just want to confirm for 100% sure; the Hooker SS long tube headers will physically fit the LS7 heads and the ports will match up just fine, correct?
04-06-2017, 11:24 AM
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