Cunning69

Thanks Turtle, I do not have the time or resources to be cutting the frame or the money to buy another pan. I am going to try a combination of using a 3/8" plate to go between the mount and swap plate and/or a "tall and narrow" motor mount. I am taking a day off tomorrow to give it another try. I am also going to see if moving the engine .5 inch forward will help with it hitting the firewall.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

By Hooker (or any vender) moving the engine forward. Yes it would leave space between the firewall and engine/head and therefore allow you to use the non-BBC heater core.. that is a solution..

But like all solution.. there is a pro and con.. in this case, moving the engine forward would cause contact with the engine pan and the crossmember.. the solution to that would be to raise the engine. If that location of the engine/trans it works, then good for it.

Personally, I see no reason that a Clamshell mount wouldn't work.. it just comes to complete installation and what will work or not. They use the same three bolt hole configuration on the block.. so it just comes down to mounting the frame stand for a Clamshell mount... but alignement is still the majore concern.

As with all that is having a problem, i would suggest bolting the plate, mount and frame stand all together on the block and test fit the placement into the frame/subframe.. and then make any adjustment of spacer or what not. Also making sure the engine is level and center (or offset if that is what is needed).

Also.. for my Nova.. 1/2" rear is what worked out best for me... but like any swap.. what works for other, might not work for you.. you just have to work around anything that presents any issue. It is anything that can't be worked out.

BC

Toddoky

Yes bczee, you would normally have contact issues between the pan, crossmember and/or steering centerlink if you moved the engine forward, which is exactly where the new designed Holley F-body pan comes into the picture. The new pan has all the fitment benefits of the notched 4th-gen pan that so many have used in an LS swap without the oil capacity loss penalty that comes with using one (the new Holley pan holds 6.2 quarts with the filter). The clampshell mounts have no alignment issues whatsoever as we are using proprietary engine brackets developed specifically for this application, not GM clamshell brackets and adapter plates. The brackets have notched ears like the stock brackets that let you drop the engine right down on the mounts and then easily install the through bolts into them. I've had the prototypes installed in three different vehicles with the engine and transmission and the combo goes in like butter each and every time. Here's a photo of the mock-up to give you a better idea of what's involved with the mounts themselves...the plates bolt to the subframe with two countersunk head bolts in each that install in stock holes in the subframe and then the clamshells bolt to the plates with two bolts again going through the subframe and two hanging off the back like the stock 73-74 Nova clamshell set-up. It works fantastic...frame stands, old-school mounts, shims and spacers can all be removed from the needs list of this swap now if you don't want to mess with the headaches associated with them.

Toddoky

You are right Turtle Bite, in the development of all these parts I probably installed an LS/4L60 or LS/T56 combo 15 times each into a 68 and 69 Camaro and a 71 Nova. This stuff takes a lot of time and effort (and digitizing and CAD resources) to get it just right.

69 Ghost

Is the new Holley mount location high enough to use the compressor in the stock location? I am a fan of stock component locations especially the compressor. There is a reason that all the manufacturers are running the compressor off of the damper.
After being into my conversion for about 4 years I have seen enough to know what everybody is saying you will more than likely give up something up. I do like what I am hearing but will reserve judgement for other people coming along. It should be easier and better than trying to piece together a number of different parts to make the conversion work especially when you are in the 'discovery' mode where part combos don't quite fit right. Some pics of the new pan and motor installed at different angles would also be nice. I am sticking with the original designed pan since it will give me what I want though......too late to change any direction.....

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Toddoky
I have talked to one Holley sales rep in the area at a local car show and do talk with Liz Miles once in a while....she lives in the area and I am looking forward to getting my hands on one of the new pan to replace the pan I have in my Chevelle... as I cracked my CTS-V pan last year.. and put in a notch F-Body pan (that is not completely sealing and still leaking, so it is a winter project).

Yes, I agree with the clamshell mount would offer a larger area or margin of the engine and frame being out of alignement. .but if something is so out of wack.. even the clamshell setup is not going to help.

About to take on a new swap for my friend (2nd gen Camaro, if he commits) and a 40 ***** Truck.. so.. I am looking for Alternator only bracket and other stuff that may help. But most likely I will have to fab a bunch of new stuff or mod other parts. Well have to see what pan clearance I will encounter.

Keep them new parts coming!.
thanks.

BC

Ghost - I'll get to those pictures for you as soon as I get some time to get under the nova soon..

Toddoky

Low-mount A/C compatibility was not a driving factor in the geometry of our new system as parts already exist that provide that bolt-in convenience if you want it. The reason it wasn't on our list is that you have to accept far-forward or raised engine positioning and/or compromised engine inclination and U-joint working angles in order to provide it. All of the just mentioned conditions work against optimizing vehicle performance and drivetrain longevity, so we couldn't in go there in good conscience since this system is first and foremost a performance LS swap package. That means, that handling, performance and ultimate ground clearance were the type of design considerations that were at the top of our list, along with the smoothest install you can imagine with these cars and the ability to drive the car hard without worry of tossing the driveline out from under the car or having to put up with driveline vibrations from hell. Does this mean that you can't run A/C with our new system components? Of course not, it just means you will need to notch your crossmember as others have done before you, or relocate your A/C to a top-mount position with Holley or similar brackets. GM did not design these cars to run low-mount accessories, so it's against our better judgment to use compromised engine/U-joint installation geometry just so you can. We understand that these components won't be for everybody, just as DSE suspension components aren't. We're OK with that and want to provide what hasn't been available in the market to this point, which is a COMPLETE LS swap mounting/exhaust system for these cars that you can install in your driveway and not have to spend hours online afterwards to find compatible parts or work-arounds to finish the swap. Pictures of all these components will definitely be forthcoming as we draw nearer to the release date, so stay tuned an send me a PM if you need any detailed specs about any of these components.

Toddoky

We'll be sure to keep them coming and have more LS swap applications in the works to be released next year as well as new racing applications. You seem to be real active on this site bczee and I enjoy connecting with people just like yourself to get honest real world feedback on the stuff we're producing and putting out there. I always appreciate your point of view on these posts that I read.

Todd

69 Ghost

Notching the cross member to keep the compressor location works which is what you have to do anyway.

One last question what engine angle are you getting with this swap? I am curious. Currently I have about 3.5 degrees with the tranny mount pushed up about an inch. I can get it down a bit by lowering the front a bit but not much.

NOS327

iTrader: (30)

If you guys didn't catch it, I posted a picture of the revised Holley pan in the oil pan sticky in this section.. nice improvement!

Toddoky

3 degrees Ghost.

kwhizz

Todd........When are the new pans going to be available???

Ken

NOS327

iTrader: (30)

Ken, I think he said they'll be released at SEMA. I don't know if released means available to public though?!!?

Cunning69

Update:

I was able to mount the engine by raising it 3/8 inch and moving forward 1/2 inch. This gives me plenty of space between the firewall and engine, also I am not hitting the SB heater core hoses (although I did crush one trying to get engine into the stock location).

FYI, I could have moved the engine another 1 inch forward and not hit the center steering link, there is plenty of room there. If you did move it that inch, you may have to raise the engine more since the Holley oil pan is sloped.

Toddoky

For all those interested, I'm puttng together another mock-up of a 1st-gen F-body LS swap over the next couple of days with our new parts to photo document the fitment of the new Holley pan using a pre-production part I have on hand. I will post up some detailed photos for all to see once I complete the exercise. I'll also be loading a TH400 and a 2004R into the car to validate their fitment using our T56 crossmember and a spacer block to make up the mount pad height difference between the transmissions. The
mount location on the TH400 and 2004R share the same distance from the bellhousing mounting face of the T56 within 1/8", but the distance from the mounting pad machined surface to the centerline of the output shaft is closer, hence the need for the spacer block to maintain the same eng/trans inclination angle.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Todd

Sound like a good idea to get more different combinations. Keep us all posted.. ! I wish all of these parts and info was around when I started my Chevelle many years ago... But then again.. I like doing it the DIY way !.. LOL..

BC

406chvycamaro

iTrader: (7)

Ive got a stupid question. How exactly to you measure the angle?

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Most will just pickup a cheap Angle Finder/gauge.. and attach it to the end of the output shaft on the trans.

Many will carry something like this, there are more costly one, but these usually will get you in the ball park. (Lowes, Sears, Homepot,etc)

http://www.harborfreight.com/dial-ga...der-34214.html

Would suggest you google serch "Drive Line Angle" for more information.

BC

Toddoky

Better yet, if you have an iphone you can go to the app store and purchase an application called Clinometer that turns your iphone into a digital angle meter that's accurate to within a 10th of a degree for just a couple of bucks. I use the app exclusively now and don't even get my dedicated digital angle meter out of the tool box anymore.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Sweet !~



All I have to do now is get an iPhone LOL...