LS vs. "Old School" 350
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2013
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Thanks so much for all the input. Since this is my first post, I wasn't thinking about mentioning how the car will be used. First off, it has the frame off a 1985 Caprice Classic. I don't plan to take it to the track, but plan to use it on the street every chance I get, weather permitting. Just as a reference for how much power I'd be happy with....if it would run in the mid to high 13's at the track, I'd be thrilled. It will have an automatic transmission as well.
For what will be a heavy car as this, whichever engine platform you go with you'll be needing 425~450 HP to run a 1320 in mid 13's.
Good luck with the project, keep us posted!
Good luck with the project, keep us posted!
All right, I'll be the one to say it, since 1958 was the first year for the "W" engine and just about everything with a V8 these days is an LS, I say go with a 348/409 for uniqueness. Unless gas mileage is a huge concern, then I say go with an LS.
While the 6.0 numbers here are quite stout, that BBC was incredibly mild, with a few very simple changes, he could have bottom 11's high 10's all day long.
Last edited by 93Z2871805; Dec 6, 2013 at 11:07 AM.
It was not mild at all. The camshaft was 20 degrees larger than the LS at .050"! However, and this is a big however, the 454 had a hydraulic flat tappet. Throw a good roller in there and I bet it would even things right up if not more. With that said, rollers were not factory in those old 454s and it is an expensive upgrade.
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Verdad Gallardo However, it is very mild if it's only making 507 HP. My father's 463 (.040 over) is also very mild (ported stock iron rectangle port heads, solid flat-tappet .586/.600 243/251 110 LSA 104 ICL, old Team G single plane, 950 HP, 2 1/4 hooker LTs, 10.5:1 CR), idle is healthy, but not very aggressive (iirc idle is at 850-900). Car went 10.73 @ 129 in a 3300lb '79 Malibu (4.10s, TH400). However, he's definitely not getting the gas mileage of an LS, lol.
10 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 195
From: Harford Co. Maryland
.630" lift 25X/26X solid roller cam in my pretty radical 406"SBC went 11.302.
Now a much less radical 264"LSx with only timing adjustments made on it's first tack outing went 11.327....Pretty damn good IMO and "should" be mid 10's once dialed in.
I'd say it's all in what parts you have.
Now a much less radical 264"LSx with only timing adjustments made on it's first tack outing went 11.327....Pretty damn good IMO and "should" be mid 10's once dialed in.
I'd say it's all in what parts you have.
Last edited by Doug G; Dec 7, 2013 at 07:38 PM.
Running a stock LS1 long block, carbed, with Edelbrock intake and LTH here. My car had a '69 350 with camel hump heads and ran beautifully. But the 350 leaked in the rear main seal. It produced 320 HP. But it started reliably with Holley EFI even in cold crappy weather. Carbed? Not so much.
The LS1? The carb is new, so I'm sure that helps, but it is big for the engine size (850 cfm) it still starts reliably in crappy cold weather (on a lightweight battery). It also puts out 380 HP and deosn't leak a drop.
Anywhere.
Parts are getting increasingly plentiful. Oh, and it revs to the upper end of the spectrum and stays there for a while without barfing. Even "low end" heads" breathe well, and I've got a minimum of 125 pound weight savings over an all-iron sbc. This is a STOCK long block. No mods or go fast parts. Stock. 380 at the crank with headers, carb and intake only.
Total engine investment = 2000.
The LS1? The carb is new, so I'm sure that helps, but it is big for the engine size (850 cfm) it still starts reliably in crappy cold weather (on a lightweight battery). It also puts out 380 HP and deosn't leak a drop.
Anywhere.
Parts are getting increasingly plentiful. Oh, and it revs to the upper end of the spectrum and stays there for a while without barfing. Even "low end" heads" breathe well, and I've got a minimum of 125 pound weight savings over an all-iron sbc. This is a STOCK long block. No mods or go fast parts. Stock. 380 at the crank with headers, carb and intake only.
Total engine investment = 2000.
Last edited by 1981TA; Dec 7, 2013 at 09:00 PM.
.630" lift 25X/26X solid roller cam in my pretty radical 406"SBC went 11.302.
Now a much less radical 264"LSx with only timing adjustments made on it's first tack outing went 11.327....Pretty damn good IMO and "should" be mid 10's once dialed in.
I'd say it's all in what parts you have.
Now a much less radical 264"LSx with only timing adjustments made on it's first tack outing went 11.327....Pretty damn good IMO and "should" be mid 10's once dialed in.
I'd say it's all in what parts you have.
I wouldn't say it's all in the parts, more so how all the parts come together in a solid combo.
By the way, I really dig your ride! My '68 was my first car when I was 15, then became my first hot rod when I was 18.
10 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 195
From: Harford Co. Maryland
Sounds like a stout setup, what are the specs of the LS build?
I wouldn't say it's all in the parts, more so how all the parts come together in a solid combo.
By the way, I really dig your ride! My '68 was my first car when I was 15, then became my first hot rod when I was 18.
I wouldn't say it's all in the parts, more so how all the parts come together in a solid combo.
By the way, I really dig your ride! My '68 was my first car when I was 15, then became my first hot rod when I was 18.
By, it all in what parts you have...I ment IF you already have a 350 use it...if you already have a LS use that.
LQ4 short block w/ LS3 heads (basically a LY6) Heads shaved .050, and an aftermarket cam on a 110 LSA due to the carb.
What did your compression end up coming to and what's the weight of the car?
TECH Regular
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 408
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very biased crowd here , for good reason , ls engines rock , and as a previous poster said they dont leak , every dam sbc or bbc ive ever seen leaks , if you do go with a sbc , go with fuel injection , ez efi , attomic ,terminator , powerjection , exc
after rereading this thread I see im the 3rd person to mention leaks , it realy is nice to have an engine that does not leak
after rereading this thread I see im the 3rd person to mention leaks , it realy is nice to have an engine that does not leak
Last edited by ijimmy; Dec 25, 2013 at 05:44 PM.
I had the IDEA of putting an sbc into my S-10 when I was doing my v8 swap. The wealth of information available here for doing the LS swap made all my hard decisions easy. That plus I got the LS for free as part of a swap deal for the 4.3/automatic out of my S-10.
These shorty headers are a pain in the rear unless you get them extended by having an extension welded on, but other than that, harnesses are easy to come by with all the vendors offering them here for reasonable costs, and so many companies are now getting efi pumps into stock setups available because of the overwhelming number of LS swaps going on.
If you decide to go with an LS swap, make a couple modifications while its outside the car. Cam and valve springs would be my very first recommendation. Make sure you have every bit of info available about the donor vehicle and your engine when ordering the cam. With quite a few variables on cam sensor mount, pickup style, cam gear design, its will be critical to get the right cam ordered to make it easy for you.
Others will chime in with other specifics to be cautious of, but that is one that I just happened to think of right off.
These shorty headers are a pain in the rear unless you get them extended by having an extension welded on, but other than that, harnesses are easy to come by with all the vendors offering them here for reasonable costs, and so many companies are now getting efi pumps into stock setups available because of the overwhelming number of LS swaps going on.
If you decide to go with an LS swap, make a couple modifications while its outside the car. Cam and valve springs would be my very first recommendation. Make sure you have every bit of info available about the donor vehicle and your engine when ordering the cam. With quite a few variables on cam sensor mount, pickup style, cam gear design, its will be critical to get the right cam ordered to make it easy for you.
Others will chime in with other specifics to be cautious of, but that is one that I just happened to think of right off.
If you're going to the trouble to put a different frame under it, it only makes sense to finish it off with an ls motor. You'll be glad you did in the long run and it would actually give you a better return on investment if you ever needed or wanted to sell it.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 728
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The LS engine is literally the result of 40 years of technology and improvements made upon the small block. Most other manufacturers changed their design and had to start all over (ford mod motors). GM stayed with the same design and made vast improvements. 40 years of technology isn't wrong.
The heads flow as much or more than most aftermarket SBC heads. The blocks are two to three times as strong. The stock internals are good for more power than most small block guys ever dreamed of making. With fuel injection and electronic ignition, they will idle better while making the same power. They will also get far improved fuel economy. Not to mention power capability. I swapped out my big block for a turbo LS. Not only will it make more power, but it will be my daily driver.
Just saying. You can't argue 40 years of technology. Want a simple setup? Go with the small block. If you want any real world use out of it, go LS.
The heads flow as much or more than most aftermarket SBC heads. The blocks are two to three times as strong. The stock internals are good for more power than most small block guys ever dreamed of making. With fuel injection and electronic ignition, they will idle better while making the same power. They will also get far improved fuel economy. Not to mention power capability. I swapped out my big block for a turbo LS. Not only will it make more power, but it will be my daily driver.
Just saying. You can't argue 40 years of technology. Want a simple setup? Go with the small block. If you want any real world use out of it, go LS.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
The LS engine is literally the result of 40 years of technology and improvements made upon the small block. Most other manufacturers changed their design and had to start all over (ford mod motors). GM stayed with the same design and made vast improvements. 40 years of technology isn't wrong.
The heads flow as much or more than most aftermarket SBC heads. The blocks are two to three times as strong. The stock internals are good for more power than most small block guys ever dreamed of making. With fuel injection and electronic ignition, they will idle better while making the same power. They will also get far improved fuel economy. Not to mention power capability. I swapped out my big block for a turbo LS. Not only will it make more power, but it will be my daily driver.
Just saying. You can't argue 40 years of technology. Want a simple setup? Go with the small block. If you want any real world use out of it, go LS.
The heads flow as much or more than most aftermarket SBC heads. The blocks are two to three times as strong. The stock internals are good for more power than most small block guys ever dreamed of making. With fuel injection and electronic ignition, they will idle better while making the same power. They will also get far improved fuel economy. Not to mention power capability. I swapped out my big block for a turbo LS. Not only will it make more power, but it will be my daily driver.
Just saying. You can't argue 40 years of technology. Want a simple setup? Go with the small block. If you want any real world use out of it, go LS.