MPG Machine
01-23-2014, 05:28 AM
#41
And unlike a Miata the old Z cars have enough head room to sit full sized people and enough room in the hatch to carry things like luggage or scuba gear for two people.
Plus the Z car won't get lost in the sorority house parking lot
01-23-2014, 08:31 AM
#43
11 Second Club
A John's Car kit allows you to swap an LS motor into a 240/260/280 Z in 20 hours. Start with a 240 and the car will weight less thanwas00#. I think the kit is only a few hundred bucks. You won't need to replace the rear end. I thought the Miata required moving the firewall?
And unlike a Miata the old Z cars have enough head room to sit full sized people and enough room in the hatch to carry things like luggage or scuba gear for two people.
Plus the Z car won't get lost in the sorority house parking lot
And unlike a Miata the old Z cars have enough head room to sit full sized people and enough room in the hatch to carry things like luggage or scuba gear for two people.
Plus the Z car won't get lost in the sorority house parking lot
No you don't have to move the firewall. Tranny tunnel has to be widened for the bell housing. I'm sure there are easier swaps out there, but as I said, there aren't many that are lighter.
Say what you like about the Miatas gay reputation, it's a more capable sports car than a 45 year old Datsun...just sayin, and I like Datsuns.
01-23-2014, 09:41 AM
#45
http://www.bossfrog.biz/Miata_V8_Swap.html
And a swapped 240 is slightly tail heavy. 3/4 of the driver's weight ends up on the rear wheels. The 20 hour swap time is no joke, these motor pretty much bolt in.
So think the Z exceeds both of your criteria.
Which is a better car is another matter, but a daily driver needs some interior space. Z's are comfortable cars, especially for fat, tall, old guys like me.
The two biggest problems with using one for a daily driver is they are so rare outside of Southern California that they become theft bait AND they do not tolerate road salt. So having a car that gets lost in a sorority house parking lot is not necessarily a bad thing.
01-23-2014, 09:59 AM
#46
11 Second Club
Obviously weight will differ drastically with different year chassis and different options. I think the 2640# number is on the high end of the spectrum. My car with no a/c, no p/s, full interior and lots of sound deadening weighs in at about 2400#. Do the same thing to an earlier chassis and it would likely be another 100# less.
You definitely got me on the swap time though...20 hours is just crazyness.
You definitely got me on the swap time though...20 hours is just crazyness.
01-23-2014, 10:23 AM
#47
Worst of Both Worlds... I have pondered an LS1 mileage build as well, but I keep coming back to the point that the two are dynamically opposed. IMO the final product:
A) Would be a half-assed economy car. Sure it will get GOOD mileage, but will come no where near the mileage of a purpose built economy vehicle.
B) Would be a half-assed hotrod/sports car. A engine built and tuned for low fuel consumption would remove the fun of having a high horsepower V8. So sure it has a V8, but it will be about as exciting as your grandmas Buick (just minus the old person smell)
So in a nut shell you would end up with a poor economy car AND a poor perfromer. But there is a bright spot: you would have bragging rights that you were dumb enough to sacrifice BOTH goals to acheive NEITHER.
Just my opinion, now go out there and prove me wrong!
A) Would be a half-assed economy car. Sure it will get GOOD mileage, but will come no where near the mileage of a purpose built economy vehicle.
B) Would be a half-assed hotrod/sports car. A engine built and tuned for low fuel consumption would remove the fun of having a high horsepower V8. So sure it has a V8, but it will be about as exciting as your grandmas Buick (just minus the old person smell)
So in a nut shell you would end up with a poor economy car AND a poor perfromer. But there is a bright spot: you would have bragging rights that you were dumb enough to sacrifice BOTH goals to acheive NEITHER.
Just my opinion, now go out there and prove me wrong!
01-23-2014, 10:28 AM
#48
Yukon Mileage Comparison BTW, I will throw in that my '03 Yukon XL gets about 13MPG in town and 17MPG on the highway, averaging around 14.5MPG. But winter blend fuels alwasy seem to knock that down to just over 14MPG
My all stock, carb'd 5.3 '73 Nova with TH350 and 2.73 gears at 3260lb gets about 16MPG average, but I am never easy on that poor junkyard motor!
My all stock, carb'd 5.3 '73 Nova with TH350 and 2.73 gears at 3260lb gets about 16MPG average, but I am never easy on that poor junkyard motor!
01-23-2014, 10:39 AM
#49
^ Eaxctly! Thats why i said if mileage is your goal? The build HAS to be cheap as it can be as well to make the savings pay off ( you tight wads you! 
)
th350 is light, and easy to spin, and TOUGH and with a super tall gear will get great mileage. It wont win any races BUT....
It WILL do awesome smoke shows.... with tall final drive, pull it into first, get it spinning and you wont be able to stop it
Just saying. look at the plus side and enjoy what you build for what it is. Also for you guys building tin boxes, consider your safety too;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-test/4721607/
Even worse, tragically this happened to a fellow board member in an LS swapped 240 recently, RIP brother;
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/24...n-hopkinsville
Be smart, build safe, dont be cheap with your life
)th350 is light, and easy to spin, and TOUGH and with a super tall gear will get great mileage. It wont win any races BUT....
It WILL do awesome smoke shows.... with tall final drive, pull it into first, get it spinning and you wont be able to stop it
Just saying. look at the plus side and enjoy what you build for what it is. Also for you guys building tin boxes, consider your safety too;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-test/4721607/
Even worse, tragically this happened to a fellow board member in an LS swapped 240 recently, RIP brother;
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/24...n-hopkinsville
Be smart, build safe, dont be cheap with your life
01-23-2014, 11:00 AM
#50
I have pondered an LS1 mileage build as well, but I keep coming back to the point that the two are dynamically opposed. IMO the final product:
A) Would be a half-assed economy car. Sure it will get GOOD mileage, but will come no where near the mileage of a purpose built economy vehicle.
B) Would be a half-assed hotrod/sports car. A engine built and tuned for low fuel consumption would remove the fun of having a high horsepower V8. So sure it has a V8, but it will be about as exciting as your grandmas Buick (just minus the old person smell)
So in a nut shell you would end up with a poor economy car AND a poor perfromer. But there is a bright spot: you would have bragging rights that you were dumb enough to sacrifice BOTH goals to acheive NEITHER.
Just my opinion, now go out there and prove me wrong!
A) Would be a half-assed economy car. Sure it will get GOOD mileage, but will come no where near the mileage of a purpose built economy vehicle.
B) Would be a half-assed hotrod/sports car. A engine built and tuned for low fuel consumption would remove the fun of having a high horsepower V8. So sure it has a V8, but it will be about as exciting as your grandmas Buick (just minus the old person smell)
So in a nut shell you would end up with a poor economy car AND a poor perfromer. But there is a bright spot: you would have bragging rights that you were dumb enough to sacrifice BOTH goals to acheive NEITHER.
Just my opinion, now go out there and prove me wrong!
B) You can cross the border between economy and power but it takes the proper vehicle, time and tuning. No you won't have the best economy, but you won't have the most power either. Essentially it again depends on your definition and setting realistic goals.
I respectfully disagree with your last statement about sacrificing both. I've seen exactly what you are talking about when people don't have realistic goals. I feel with realistic goals, good research, planning, and tuning things can be achieved that will absolutely blow you away.
One aspect of this is the calibration, a good calibration is everything. Who would have thought 40 years ago that 300 horsepower with a glass smooth idle, decent economy and 150K plus reliability would be boring and normal?
I'm getting low 24's on the highway with winter blend gas (as in just last weekend) in a car that isn't nearly optimized. I'm also doing this without DOD, VVT or AFM. I can still cook tires, do donuts and accelerate like normal for this engine. The only thing I lost was the baggage of stopping at the gas station more frequently, I'm pretty happy with that. Can I get more, probably but I'll worry about it when I do some much needed upgrades and maintenance.
01-24-2014, 04:17 AM
#51
That is what I always try to say in these threads. While there is a pretty sizable difference between 15 mpg and 25 mpg, the difference between 25 and 30 mpg is not worth paying much money for.
And depending on how much you drive spending $12k to go from 15 to 25 mpg could take 10 or more years to get your money back. At 15k miles per year you are saving 400 gallons/year. That is what, $1400/yr?
V8's are just the wrong starting point.
01-24-2014, 04:19 AM
#52
Go to an overdrive trans and I will bet you bump that up to mid 20's and will have a more pleasant car to drive in the process.
01-24-2014, 04:31 PM
#57
Teching In
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the best hookers come with their own supply of beer, and are still marginally less fun to slide around in.
both options are usually frowned upon by all but the best girlfriends / wives, and with both you're going to need some sort of insurance / protection for peace of mind.
your call.
01-24-2014, 05:00 PM
#59
10 Second Club
iTrader: (8)
Why not just get a m6 4th gen ls1 car? They get great mpg's. I have knocked down 29.1 before all while running 11's. I checked it once going to the track running and driving home and it got 22.x.
01-25-2014, 09:27 AM
#60
Just buy a used VW diesel off craigslist for about $3k and be done with it. 45-50mpg. Do a muffler delete and a cold air intake. Burnouts are easy and the straight pipe turbo sounds cool too. Upsolute performance can burn a chip for the factory ECU for better performance.