DW SD

thumbs up on your continued EXTREME attention to detail...at this point, we expect no less

lm38330

iTrader: (12)

This set-up looks great and I think I want to steal your idea, but to use on a my new fuel sending unit I'm using on my Chevy K10/CTS-V swap.

What two fittings did you use? Like brand and part number? Thanks and keep up the good work, I have to say your build is one of the most interesting and detailistic I've seen in a while!!

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

These particular fittings were 3/8" tube to -6AN adapter fittings, Earl's Performance PN# AT165006ERL. The valley cover and tb happened to use the same size.

They have a bunch of different sizes available though depending on what you need to adapt, see the selection here: http://www.summitracing.com/search/b...rder=Ascending

One thing about these is that they are only rated for ~50 psi from the manufacturer. Assuming that there is a safety margin in that and you'll be around the typical 60-65 psi you'd probably be fine but I'd at least make sure to pressure test everything before you fire it up. Is welding / soldering / brazing -an fittings on to your sending unit an option?

DW SD

I did use those on high pressure fuel lines in the past and they worked. Note... 8mm metric tube is very close (interchangeable) to 5/16", too. Many European OEMs use 8mm OD lines for their fuel systems (Porsche for one).

Eastwood makes a great flare tool for making ends on tubing. They have dies for metric bubble flare, double flare and a set for AN. With an AN end, you use a tube nut (instead of the compression fitting) which is rated at much higher pressure than compression.

Only trouble is you'd not be able to fit the tubes in to the tool while attached to the valley cover or valve covers. BUT for fuel lines, it'd work great, as long as you can bend the line after you've flared the end.

The tool supposedly works with stainless. I've used for flaring copper / nickel brake lines with great success.

Doug

lm38330

iTrader: (12)

So if I'm reading correctly, you've used these exact Earls fittings rated at 50 psi (max) for high pressure applications?

What pressure levels we talkin here?

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

Honestly I hadn't even thought about trying to flare the valley and tb tubing, but as you say they probably wouldn't fit with tube nuts and sleeves on there.

I have the Imperial 400F flaring tool, I think I posted it a little while back. Does a great job in stainless. I'm going to be using that on all my under-car hardlines including fuel supply / return and new brakelines.

--

Couple small updates this weekend

I decided to get a Quicktime scatter shield for some added insurance in the event my clutch decides to frag itself. I'm going to have a billet flywheel so I'm not all that concerned about it, but I do intend to give the car some "exercise" shall we say - strip, autox, road course, etc, any chance I get. I debated with myself for a while on it but it seems dumb to spend all kinds of coin on go-fast stuff without equal attention paid to safety.

I know lots of guys just bolt these in with no problems but I'm going to try to get this dialed in as tight as I can. Towards those ends I started by getting rid of the powder coat on both mating surfaces and bolting it up to my dummy block. A painted surface isn't a reference surface - variations in coating surface thickness could mess with the parallelism.



I'd also suggest chasing the mounting threads on the trans mounting flange - I assume they just power tapped these on a mill when flycutting that surface but mine were somewhat gummy. Last thing you want to do is crossthread a bolt when you're under the car wrestling a 160 lb transmission into / out of the car.



Couple things I noticed that you guys might already know about these things - not a big deal but figured I'd mention them.

-The stock F-body bell has two lower bolts that mount into the oil pan. The quick time does not have those.
-One of the mounting holes that bolts the blockplate to the bell housing is obstructed by the block casting. Not sure if this is the same case for all LS blocks or if it's unique to the LS1.

Anyway, I spent some time getting the car somewhat level and threw the block in the bay to start looking at clearances. I know it's been done a million times and I could easily buy the parts to bolt it in tomorrow but I'm going to try to find my own way - I like the idea of adapting mounts that rest on factory isolators. I'm using the bimmerworld group N replica mounts - if they're good enough for e92 m3 racecars they're good enough for me. All the aftermarket stuff is pretty much a solid mount and I really hate solid motor mounts. The kit components also aren't worth $800 to me.



Once I get it into a position I think will work I'm going to cobble up some mounts and start working on headers before it gets too cold to be outside. It's going to be super tight (especially on the driver's side with the steering shaft in the way) but I want to try to make 1-7/8" primaries work.

Other small details:

Got supplies in from Brown and Miller for my fuel line - convoluted ptfe tubing > stainless braiding > fire sleeve. I was going to use the russell pro-classic hose but a friend of mine pointed out that fuel vapor can permeate synthetic rubber. In the interest of minimizing the potential for engine fires, I sprung for this



Lastly, made the last remaining hoses for the steam vent system. This makes the engine pretty much done except for the wiring harness - hope to knock that out over the winter if all goes well.





Let me know if any of you guys out there with 102 manifolds are interested in a copy of this steam vent system. I'm making one for a friend of mine and figured I'd extend the offer to you guys. Manifold can be left bare aluminum, or powdercoated black/wrinkle black/or silver (all I have in stock at the moment). Shoot me a PM if interested.

More soon

-Chuck

DW SD

I used those same -6AN compression fittings, yes. High pressure was Bosch fuel pump in Porsche OEM (1995 3.6L 911 engine) fuel line application. I don't know the system pressure, but 3 to 4 Bars, I'd guess. Probably 45 psi to 60 psi.
High pressure being a relative term

Continued great work!

Doug

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

You my friend, in my 30+ years as a gear head, have won my "****" (please note that is the “close attention to detail” definition) award. At the same time, in all honesty, you are my hero! I would LOVE to do that but don’t think I could ever have the attention pan to do what your doing. I would be so excited to get her running and go play, well, that’s what I would do, slap it together.
Congrats, very nice build!

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

been busy this week doing a bunch of small stuff, among those things I made one of my two alignment fixtures to set up the driveline



I sized it to slip over the output shaft just like the slip yoke will, and bored the end out to fit a small laser pointer. This will tell me exactly where the output shaft of the transmission is pointing and will make it pretty easy to get it dead nuts in line with the centerline of the diff. I'm going to make another fixture that bolts up to the pinion of the differential that shoots back at the transmission - when both of the beams are hitting the centerline of the component they're aimed at, then I'm in perfect alignment side to side. Takes a lot of the guess work out of trying to measure things, create datums, eyeball it, etc.

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

Like I said, you win the award, but I totaly understand, lol. Thats "exactly" what I was thinking of, though, a little less elaborate. Just one of those level lasers from Sears attahed somehow.

Dont get me wrong. I am from the "if you have it, build it camp", but, with a laser attached to the tranny, you really dont need one on the yoke, do you?

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

I'm assuming you mean differential? I'll say yes - here's an "overhead" view



Your eyes would probably pick up on it, but it's possible to have the transmission offset from the centerline while still hitting the center of the pinion. With the beam shooting forward from the diff, you'll be able to tell if this is the case since it wouldn't be hitting the trans on center if it was cocked.

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

Yes, differential.

Would you not just use the angle measurement tool for that to calculate how off it is?

You picture makes sense, but, how do you establish a level chasis, to be able to then level the pinion shaft along with the engine driveline (aka transmission shaft)? I have thought of that also, but, where are they chassis reference points IF you actually have a level concrete slab to use? Also, "is" the diff pinion shaft on the E36 supposed to be level to the chassis or angled up?

Edit: I am thinking front to back angles, didnt think of left to right angles (for the rear and diff) as I assumed there was no wiggle/adjustment for that. Everything seems locked into place. You could, however, shim the front or back carrier mounting bolts to maybe adjust the angle.

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

You can't measure left to right angles with an angle finder. That's the point of the lasers - center the trans on the diff left to right.

To level the chassis side to side I threw up a piece of dom tubing on top of the front strut towers, put my angle finder on that, and shimmed the jack stands until it was level (you could also use a long level here).

The chassis level along the length of the car doesn't matter - it ends up being cancelled out in the math. I'm building everything forward from the diff, and the pinion is where it is. No idea what it's "supposed" to be, but in my case I measured that the drive flange of the diff was pointing 3 degrees up.

The diff doesn't need to move, it's right where BMW left it (and that's ok). What all of this is about is making sure you put the transmission in the right spot when you're building your own mounts.

There's 3 alignments that need to happen between the trans and diff:

-side to side
-pitch angle
-vertical offset

Once they're both on center with each other (side to side), the vertical offset and pitch angle work together to set the correct operating angles for the u-joints. To get the vertical offset, I'm going to level up a piece of tubing under the car to use as a reference, then drop measurements from the centerline of the diff and the centerline of the trans.

In my case, the trans need to be 3 degrees down and ~ 3" above the differential to get u-joint operating angles of ~1.5 degrees. Exact numbers will be finalized once I settle in to how long my driveshaft needs to be (longer shaft needs more offset).

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

I was thinking Left and right can be measured by the lasers and big pieces of cardboard transmission side and diff side. Make your marks on the cardboard and if they are at the same level and distance from each others centerline, no angles. If you just try to beam the light into the center of the opposite shaft, that will not tell you if you have left and right angles that are off from the diff to the front crankshaft bolt.

Hmmm, okay, so, your going to take whatever left and right angles BMW gives you. Yours is 3d up, noted .

Are you going to shoot a laser from the diff to the front of the engine, drop a plumb line from the CL of the crank bolt to the laser and line it up that way? Again, would have to level the car, diff assembly and powertrain, or, diff and powerain itself.

As much of a stickler as you are and the work your doing, I would go for a perfect (parallel) horizontal setup.

Again, I am breezing through this so if I missed it, I apologize, don’t want you to beat a dead horse. You can just tell me you got it covered and I will go back and figure it out later tonight. I will get back to you if I cant figure it out, lol.

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

You don't really care where the crankshaft bolt is because you're not connecting your driveshaft there. You're connecting it at the trans output shaft. When shooting a beam from either end, it's impossible for both beams to hit center of what they're aimed at if those components aren't centered on each other.

There should be no left and right angles - the diff will be plumb with the centerline of the factory driveline layout. I want the engine and transmission I'm putting in to line up on that original CL like the original engine/trans did.

No. I'm going to shoot a laser from the diff forward and look at where it hits the transmission. If it hits anywhere but on center (left to right), then that tells me that the trans is off center and needs to be moved accordingly. At the same time, I'll make sure that the beam shooting from the transmission is on center (left to right) of the diff flange.

There are only 3 ways the trans and diff can be misaligned from the overhead view: a lateral offset, a lateral angle, or a combination of the two. Consider the following cases, and look at where the beams strike the surfaces.





Perfect lateral alignment is what I'm after.

U-joints need an operating angle to function properly and without vibration. I can't/don't care to move the diff, so the transmission needs to be set up to account for the pinion inclination that I measured.

Read this http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

I like to do things diff, lol. J/k


Was a slip up at work. Ment to say your going with what BMW gave you. Should not have been any mention of left or right, but, you have found that you have 3d upward tilt. Duly noted for when I go to check mine.


Now that I am home thinking about it, I see what your saying. Amazing how fast you can figure things out when your not trying to fix 6 clients computers at the same time AND trying to squeeze in LS1TECH time.


If needed, couldn't we throw a few shims/spacers in the front, or rear (depending which way we need) two diff carrier bushings to body area to adjust the pinion angle a degree or two? How far could we go without binding up anything else? This is provided the engine and tranny need a little help. Not saying this would be the first thing I did, but, if it was needed to help out a little. Just thinking of options before I get under there.

Lastly, once you get perfect alignment, how are you going to measure your vertical ( or is that lateral?) offset to get your operating angle? Are you going to measure from the floor to points on the tranny and engine, or?

Have you decided what the operating angle will be?


Hope I got all that correct now.

E36LUVA

WOW just WOW!

ckpitt55

iTrader: (4)

No problem lol. Note that that "3 degrees up" that I measured at the pinion is a combination of the true diff angle and the angle that the body is sitting at - this measurement is with reference to theoretically flat ground which is indicated by a 0 reading on the gauge.

Depending on how your car is sitting, it's possible for you to get a different measurement than me, but have your diff in the same orientation relative to the car, so don't get too caught up on seeing exactly 3 degrees. Know what I mean?

If you're building your own engine and transmission mounts, I can't think of a reason why you'd need to shim the differential. Just compensate for it with your engine/trans positioning.

Lets call the "vertical offset" our elevation (looking from the side). I'm going to set that by laying a straightedge under the car and leveling it. From there I'll drop and measure a plumb from the centerline of each component and compare them - then adjust the trans to achieve the right op angle based on my other calculations. Since the floor of the car isn't really flat, it's not a very reliable reference surface to pull measurements from.

I'm shooting for an operating angle of 1.5 degrees. Dana / Tremec / Spicer all seem to recommend at least 1, but no more than 3. So I picked 1.5.

At the risk at complicating things further, here's what's going on. To be clear, these are the elevations and angles as viewed from the side of the car. The transmission and diff are both at 3 degrees so they are running parallel. The solid green line represents the driveshaft, which connects the two centerlines together. Your operating angle is the difference between the centerline of the trans/diff and the driveshaft centerline. The elevation of the transmission will change the angle the driveshaft is running at - note that this offset will change with your driveshaft length, so you need to get the distance between the trans and diff set before continuing with that.

"Dt" and "Dd" are the transmission and differential height measurements that you pull with your tape measure and plumb.



The above can easily be adapted for your situation. For example, if you measure something other than 3 degrees at the diff pinion, your total angle will be whatever you measured + your desired operating angle (if you measure 2.5 degrees and you want an operating angle of 1 degree, the total angle is 3.5 degrees). Take the sine of that and multiply by your driveshaft length, and you've got the height offset that you need.

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help.

Btw - if you have a smart phone, Tremec has a nifty little driveshaft angle calculator that will compute your angles for you - even tells you whether it passes or fails. Might make things easier when you're double checking things under the car.

Hope this helps.

csmc711

iTrader: (4)

Yea, this guy is just incredible with the impeccable job he is doing. I am the exact way, mentally. I will polish and sculpture a turn just to make it look better and be a better turd in general, but, he has the patience I do not have. I was taking off the heads on my engine on the stand and I was already bored before I got half the bolts out and wanted to go surf on LS1TECH. Only the anticipation of looking into the motor to see what it looked like kept me going through the first one and then to head # 2, lol.

The dude and his build is friken awesome!!



Thats why I was curious how you were going to do it. As of now, I am armed with a ruler, string and plumbob, lol. I know you have a slew of tools (tools I dont have) so I wanted to pick your brain to see what I could incorporate. I will be working on a wavy asphalt driveway, so, I need to have level ground ref points (however thats done, as like said I am a stickler and i want to level the car, but then again i might bail on that idea, lol) and then have known points on the car to measure to level the car and then measure the pinion flange from those points. I would think it would be close to the same as using string to do a 4 wheel alignment (for me). Gonna be interesting, hah!



Neither can I, but, one person that did the swap said he shimmed his front sub frame to get things to match. I assume that was for the offset heights between the engine and diff. I don’t think it was for the front to back angle of the powertrain, but, again, just trying to think it all out before I get to it.



Oh, dont worry, bring it on. I will get it, it just takes me a bit longer than most to get some things, lol.


I didn’t think that mattered as long as you had the trans and diff set, but, yes, now that I am digging into it (have not even got that for into looking at the driveline setup, still looking for headers), I can see what your saying. Longer or shorter will affect the DS angle for sure.

Yes, yes it does. Thank you for your patience and explanations. It will be very handy in another cooold cold month or two, lol.

Keep up the awesome work!!!

dirtbag

iTrader: (2)

Ckpitt - I would design the mounts to allow for a 1 degree op angle and leave the option to shim later if needed up to a 3 degree op angle. Back when I was messing around with this, my final operation angle ended up at 1.6 degrees. And surprisely that extra 0.1 degrees really can make or break yoke vibrations. It was a lot of trial and error. Looks good though man, love the ingenuity.