5.3 overheating on highway in TJ Wrangler
08-06-2014, 07:25 PM
#82
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Hey, I just had this (somewhat random) thought while reading the latest replies to this thread - I wonder if it might be worth it to:
A) figure out some way to measure the air pressure under the hood as you're driving down the highway (the thought I had was to try to find a high-pressure area under the hood, mount the sender there, & tape a low-pressure vac/boost gauge to your windshield);
OR
B) tape some short lengths of bright fluorescent ribbons to different locations under the hood, mount a GoPro (or something similar) so that it can capture how the different ribbons behave as you're going down the road. (You might also need to hook up some LEDs under-hood as well.)
One or both of those might be helpful in determining what's happening (in terms of air flow) as you're driving - seems like they'd give you a little bit more information than you have now...
Just kind of thinking out loud... Good luck with this issue.
A) figure out some way to measure the air pressure under the hood as you're driving down the highway (the thought I had was to try to find a high-pressure area under the hood, mount the sender there, & tape a low-pressure vac/boost gauge to your windshield);
OR
B) tape some short lengths of bright fluorescent ribbons to different locations under the hood, mount a GoPro (or something similar) so that it can capture how the different ribbons behave as you're going down the road. (You might also need to hook up some LEDs under-hood as well.)
One or both of those might be helpful in determining what's happening (in terms of air flow) as you're driving - seems like they'd give you a little bit more information than you have now...
Just kind of thinking out loud... Good luck with this issue.
08-08-2014, 12:08 PM
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Do you have the correct pump with proper rotation or could be a bad water pump.....maybe the impeller could be mounted backwards?? I have seen crazier thing happen.
08-08-2014, 01:10 PM
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Who makes a standard rotation water pump for a ls series engine? A truck water pump runs reverse rotation with belt in hammock routing or S routing. Unless he has the belt groove side down on the smooth pulley in which case he probably lost the belt by now or it's pretty chewed up.
08-08-2014, 05:42 PM
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water pump is brand new and belt is routed correctly, thanks for the idea though, don't want to miss any detail...
Got the Jeep Grand Cherokee fan installed after modifying the stock shroud. Will do some testing as soon as I have time and report back...
Got the Jeep Grand Cherokee fan installed after modifying the stock shroud. Will do some testing as soon as I have time and report back...
08-09-2014, 10:01 AM
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08-11-2014, 09:59 AM
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My fan is controlled by the PCM and I can change the ON/OFF settings, I will look into having the ON lowered a bit to see if that helps.
The new fan seems to move more air, for the first time ever the fan actually shut off on the highway. It turned back on eventually but the temp stayed at 207 for quite a while before climbing back up slightly. I pushed the Jeep harder than before but still saw 215. I do think the fan was a good change as it is 19" diameter and covers more of the radiator. Modifying the stock shroud allows for the stock overflow tank to be used as well which I can actually view the coolant level in as well.
My next step is to relocate the trans cooler and add a dedicated fan to it. At this point the only place to locate it would be near the rear of the vehicle above the rear axle. While not perfectly ideal there is no room under the hood and I can reuse the large 11x11 trans cooler without having to purchase another (will just need to build a shroud and purchase a fan).
If us Jeep guys could fit a larger radiator I don't think the issues would be as common, but with such a small grill it puts us at a huge disadvantage...
The new fan seems to move more air, for the first time ever the fan actually shut off on the highway. It turned back on eventually but the temp stayed at 207 for quite a while before climbing back up slightly. I pushed the Jeep harder than before but still saw 215. I do think the fan was a good change as it is 19" diameter and covers more of the radiator. Modifying the stock shroud allows for the stock overflow tank to be used as well which I can actually view the coolant level in as well.
My next step is to relocate the trans cooler and add a dedicated fan to it. At this point the only place to locate it would be near the rear of the vehicle above the rear axle. While not perfectly ideal there is no room under the hood and I can reuse the large 11x11 trans cooler without having to purchase another (will just need to build a shroud and purchase a fan).
If us Jeep guys could fit a larger radiator I don't think the issues would be as common, but with such a small grill it puts us at a huge disadvantage...
08-11-2014, 10:55 AM
#91
Any pictures yet? Especially of the fan/shroud area. I am curious to see how the fans and shroud are mounted in relationship to the radiator. A 11"x11" trans cooler seems quite big. The Impala SS I mentioned above was is pretty much a Pro Touring set up, big Hp made to go long distances. Once I learned about the Long name brand coolers, I never needed anything else, very universal and the cooling design is well thought out. The air doesn't just go through it, it is directed in on a angle so it has to make the most contact possible. If you look straight on at the cooler, you cannot see through it, you have to look at it on a angle to see though it.
Here you will get the idea on sizing and weight of vehicle for usage (no, not my video):
Look this up in ebay: "Long" tru-cool lpd transmission oil cooler #4452
Here you will get the idea on sizing and weight of vehicle for usage (no, not my video):
Look this up in ebay: "Long" tru-cool lpd transmission oil cooler #4452
08-11-2014, 11:54 AM
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The cooler I have for the trans is below, it is also a Tru Cool, 11"x11" with 1/2" fittings. It is very large and does block a significant amount of the radiator. With the hot air being drawn to the radiator with this beast in front of it cant be helping the engine cooling...
http://www.trucool.com/?q=h7b
I will try to get some pics of the radiator/shroud/fan set up as soon as I can.
http://www.trucool.com/?q=h7b
I will try to get some pics of the radiator/shroud/fan set up as soon as I can.
08-11-2014, 12:33 PM
#93
Some thoughts that I have been kicking around for a while...
1) Is this a common problem with doing this type of swap in your jeep style?
2) Once you are sure you have good coolant flow, good fans for cooling. Is it possible that you are flowing too much and the coolant doesn't have time to correctly cool?
3) I know this has been asked before, but have you taken it in to get a tune check? If so, are they capable of doing a actual on the road log run so you can reproduce the same situation?
Dyno's only tell so much, real life driving to me is the best way to wring out a tune.
1) Is this a common problem with doing this type of swap in your jeep style?
2) Once you are sure you have good coolant flow, good fans for cooling. Is it possible that you are flowing too much and the coolant doesn't have time to correctly cool?
3) I know this has been asked before, but have you taken it in to get a tune check? If so, are they capable of doing a actual on the road log run so you can reproduce the same situation?
Dyno's only tell so much, real life driving to me is the best way to wring out a tune.
08-11-2014, 01:01 PM
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Thanks for the post and ideas, here are my thoughts...
A) Yes this is a common issue when swapping a V8 into a TJ Wrangler Jeep. Those who don't have issues don't seem to post up their set-up and thus many people chase the issue for some time. In hindsight I should have done things differently to start but you gotta learn sometime...
B)It is not out of the realm of possibility that the coolant flow is TOO good, but I have read a lot about "excess" coolant flow not really being possible...willing to learn on this topic for sure...
c) The tune was done on a dyno, so short bursts at higher RPM. From what I can tell with the scanner the Jeep isn't lean at any point. It was originally but has been corrected. I will have to check with the tuner and see if he has time to do a road test with me.
A) Yes this is a common issue when swapping a V8 into a TJ Wrangler Jeep. Those who don't have issues don't seem to post up their set-up and thus many people chase the issue for some time. In hindsight I should have done things differently to start but you gotta learn sometime...
B)It is not out of the realm of possibility that the coolant flow is TOO good, but I have read a lot about "excess" coolant flow not really being possible...willing to learn on this topic for sure...
c) The tune was done on a dyno, so short bursts at higher RPM. From what I can tell with the scanner the Jeep isn't lean at any point. It was originally but has been corrected. I will have to check with the tuner and see if he has time to do a road test with me.
08-11-2014, 03:49 PM
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Jeep thing,
Did you order your cooler thru Novak? Only asking because I have their "heavy duty" tranny cooler but not exactly sure of the specs. It got mailed to the shop that did the original swap for me.
I just know it was the larger one they had to keep the 4l80 cool.
Since my transmission has never gone above 180 and hovers around 140/60 I'm was also considering gong to a smaller cooler that will fit.
I will say I had a derale cooler on my 42rle before and on the highway it was useless. On my LJ I had it mounted behind the transfer case along the frame rail and it wasn't really a help. In the city it was good and in traffic. I plan on keeping line up front so it gets plenty of airflow. I do think I can cut the size down and still keep it cool though.
My motor is barely even working pushing the jeep around.
Did you order your cooler thru Novak? Only asking because I have their "heavy duty" tranny cooler but not exactly sure of the specs. It got mailed to the shop that did the original swap for me.
I just know it was the larger one they had to keep the 4l80 cool.
Since my transmission has never gone above 180 and hovers around 140/60 I'm was also considering gong to a smaller cooler that will fit.
I will say I had a derale cooler on my 42rle before and on the highway it was useless. On my LJ I had it mounted behind the transfer case along the frame rail and it wasn't really a help. In the city it was good and in traffic. I plan on keeping line up front so it gets plenty of airflow. I do think I can cut the size down and still keep it cool though.
My motor is barely even working pushing the jeep around.
08-11-2014, 04:08 PM
#96
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Yes the cooler came from Novak, and while I like that its big, I think its causing more issues than its helping. Putting it in the rear with its own fan, which would be thermostatically controlled, I think will help both the trans and the engine cooling system.
I have a trans temp gauge on the way, no idea what my temps are currently.
When you say your engine is barely working to push your Jeep around what exactly are you referring to? Do you mean trans isn't getting warm hence switching to a smaller cooler?
I have a trans temp gauge on the way, no idea what my temps are currently.
When you say your engine is barely working to push your Jeep around what exactly are you referring to? Do you mean trans isn't getting warm hence switching to a smaller cooler?
08-12-2014, 01:12 AM
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There are a few discussions over on Pirate about this....heck, you may already be there for all I know. I know many of the comments there recommended just going back to old school and using a mechanical fan. I don't recall if anyone posted up saying this did or didn't fix their problem however. I'm across the world at the moment so won't be working on my junk anytime soon, but I think I'll start with my mechanical fan and see if it fits. If you can wait a year or two I'd be happy to share my results with you
I'll keep watching this to see what it finally turns out to be.
Cheers.
I'll keep watching this to see what it finally turns out to be.
Cheers.
08-12-2014, 07:41 AM
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Yeah my trans temps in 100 degree weather are barely getting up to operating temp. If the lincoln fan doesn't fix the issue, which I'm hoping the size of the fan and shroud do, I'll drop down to a smaller trans cooler.
08-12-2014, 11:29 AM
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I could be wrong but I believe 06' was electric fan stock, not saying a mechanical couldn't be added though. Would like to retain the electric and try to open up the airflow at the front of the radiator as I think that's more of an issue than the fan itself...
My next steps are relocating the trans cooler, adding the trans temp gauge, and possibly adding some venting to the inner fenders. Hoping to work on these items next week, no time this week...
My next steps are relocating the trans cooler, adding the trans temp gauge, and possibly adding some venting to the inner fenders. Hoping to work on these items next week, no time this week...
