Traction handicapped... not sure where to start
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 134
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From: New Taxes York
Traction handicapped... not sure where to start I'm more than happy with the LS2 swap into my '69 Camaro, but its so traction challenged that it'll blow the tires off with a whisper of the accelerator.
The current setup is Hotchkis lowering springs front and back, frame connectors, larger front sway bar in front, street AC Delco shocks, Guldstrand mod and full poly bushings everywhere there used to be rubber, power steering. It handles like a gokart on rails... EXCEPT when the 235/60-15 BF Goodriches lose grip.
I can't stomp the pedal without going up I'm smoke, and accelerating thru a turn produces donuts at the worst time.
I realize a larger rear tire\wheel combo that includes expensively stickie rubber might help in the turns, maybe... but what more can I do to keep the rear from standing still like a Buick Century on ice when I stomp on it? Would traction bars or something to transfer weight make a difference in addition to more\stickier rubber? I don't have wheel hop now due to the springs doing their job, and the rock hard BF Goidriches. The car is solid and there's little to no weight transfer now...no nose lift when I stomp it...it just goes like a bat out of hell.
Suggestions that I can chew on over the non-driving season?
Thanks all....
The current setup is Hotchkis lowering springs front and back, frame connectors, larger front sway bar in front, street AC Delco shocks, Guldstrand mod and full poly bushings everywhere there used to be rubber, power steering. It handles like a gokart on rails... EXCEPT when the 235/60-15 BF Goodriches lose grip.
I can't stomp the pedal without going up I'm smoke, and accelerating thru a turn produces donuts at the worst time.
I realize a larger rear tire\wheel combo that includes expensively stickie rubber might help in the turns, maybe... but what more can I do to keep the rear from standing still like a Buick Century on ice when I stomp on it? Would traction bars or something to transfer weight make a difference in addition to more\stickier rubber? I don't have wheel hop now due to the springs doing their job, and the rock hard BF Goidriches. The car is solid and there's little to no weight transfer now...no nose lift when I stomp it...it just goes like a bat out of hell.
Suggestions that I can chew on over the non-driving season?
Thanks all....
12 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: 217
First thing I'd try is a set of adjustable shocks to loosen the front a bit. 255 tires will fit a std height 68 SS with no mods, But wider tires in the back will help. If you were drag racing it I'd say go to a smaller front sway bar(stock) or remove it. Unless you are having wheel hop issues traction bars will be of little help. Since this seems to be a road race type car, the next mod would be adjustable frt/rear shocks and experiment with spring rates.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: New Taxes York
Thanks for the adjustable shocks idea... I really didn't know where to go after beefing up the rubber.
And you're correct that I don't drag race it. This is more a build for handling, which I really have just scratched the surface on up to this point. It took me so long to get the car on the road to begin with that technology and the options I had improved AFTER I'd made my choices and bolted them on. Now I have to play catch-up and rob more banks.
And you're correct that I don't drag race it. This is more a build for handling, which I really have just scratched the surface on up to this point. It took me so long to get the car on the road to begin with that technology and the options I had improved AFTER I'd made my choices and bolted them on. Now I have to play catch-up and rob more banks.
Those tires are far from ideal for any kind of performance!
Before you do anything you really need to figure out if you want it to go fast in a straight line or fast through the curves or a compromise between both.
If you are looking for better handling I would get rid of the 15's and go to a low profile 18 of the same diameter and go as wide as you can. I have an S10 Xtreme that came with 16's from the factory and just by going to a low profile 18's with a softer compound the truck almost bites to good in the corners.
Before you do anything you really need to figure out if you want it to go fast in a straight line or fast through the curves or a compromise between both.
If you are looking for better handling I would get rid of the 15's and go to a low profile 18 of the same diameter and go as wide as you can. I have an S10 Xtreme that came with 16's from the factory and just by going to a low profile 18's with a softer compound the truck almost bites to good in the corners.
Last edited by LLLosingit; Sep 15, 2014 at 08:38 PM.
That's what I've been doing wrong all this time!
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11 Second Club
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 390
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From: The Burnie, MD
Tires, Tires, Tires.
I know you said BFG's, but what tire is it exactly? The treadwear rating of the tire will give you a pretty good idea about how much grip it will give you. I'm limited to just a 225/50-15 tire, but with a sticky set of Toyo RA-1's (100 treadwear), I can mash the gas pedal in 2nd gear and it hooks up.
With any high performance summer/competition tire, it's a compromise. Generally, the lower the treadwear of the tire the shorter the life. Thy also don't do well in cold weather.
I've been running RA-1's for years and have yet to find a more rounded (pun intended) tire. Excellent in the rain, designed for cornering yet had better straight line grip on the street than MT Streets, and I can get about 10K miles out of a set.
Nitto NT01's are also great.
I know you said BFG's, but what tire is it exactly? The treadwear rating of the tire will give you a pretty good idea about how much grip it will give you. I'm limited to just a 225/50-15 tire, but with a sticky set of Toyo RA-1's (100 treadwear), I can mash the gas pedal in 2nd gear and it hooks up.
With any high performance summer/competition tire, it's a compromise. Generally, the lower the treadwear of the tire the shorter the life. Thy also don't do well in cold weather.
I've been running RA-1's for years and have yet to find a more rounded (pun intended) tire. Excellent in the rain, designed for cornering yet had better straight line grip on the street than MT Streets, and I can get about 10K miles out of a set.
Nitto NT01's are also great.
I actually work at a non sponsor place that sells only 1st and 2nd gen camaro parts, I'll throw my hat in the ring on this one. Tires and gears biggest differences you can make I would do serious rear tires with a solid foot print and a healthy side wall Mickey ETs or Nitto NTO5RS I second 70RS comment what gears are you running?
As already stated TIRES will make the largest improvement. I have a giant set of Mickey Thompson sportsmans 31x16.50.15's that will not hook up at all in first, second or third. Makes for loads of fun, but you don't get anywhere fast. LOL
Grab a set of cheap nitto drag radials for the street. It's what I use on my head/cam/exhaust 6.0L 4.30 geared daily driver Cutlass up here in the rainy Northwest. Reviews say they don't hook well at the track, but they're great on the street and work really well in the rain! I got mine for $140 each.
12 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: 217
Grab a set of cheap nitto drag radials for the street. It's what I use on my head/cam/exhaust 6.0L 4.30 geared daily driver Cutlass up here in the rainy Northwest. Reviews say they don't hook well at the track, but they're great on the street and work really well in the rain! I got mine for $140 each.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: New Taxes York
3.42 gears.
Don't know the tread wear rating at this moment...
It can get sideways in 3rd gear if I let it, so I can be moving at a pretty good clip when they cut loose at speed. Once that sweet spot in the RPM range is hit or I make it downshift.
The tires have been abused for 5 summers now and still have 85-90 tread (or more). I rotated them at 5000. They gotta be pretty hard.
There's a member of our club that autocrosses a big block Chevelle with Coopers. He's not the first to tell me how much he prefers them to the Nittos.
I haven't verified the pinion angle since it was set, but it was set by a shop that I DO NOT trust. I can't drop the trans tail much at all now or the driveshaft will make contact with the exhaust crossover. I will say though that the tailshaft is in the same place it was before the swap to this engine\trans combo, with the same '74 Nova 10- bolt. The pinion angle has not be adjusted, just the trans tail.
I keep meaning to check the angle of the trans and pinion....its on the list.
Don't know the tread wear rating at this moment...
It can get sideways in 3rd gear if I let it, so I can be moving at a pretty good clip when they cut loose at speed. Once that sweet spot in the RPM range is hit or I make it downshift.
The tires have been abused for 5 summers now and still have 85-90 tread (or more). I rotated them at 5000. They gotta be pretty hard.
There's a member of our club that autocrosses a big block Chevelle with Coopers. He's not the first to tell me how much he prefers them to the Nittos.
I haven't verified the pinion angle since it was set, but it was set by a shop that I DO NOT trust. I can't drop the trans tail much at all now or the driveshaft will make contact with the exhaust crossover. I will say though that the tailshaft is in the same place it was before the swap to this engine\trans combo, with the same '74 Nova 10- bolt. The pinion angle has not be adjusted, just the trans tail.
I keep meaning to check the angle of the trans and pinion....its on the list.
Last edited by HwyStarJoe; Sep 16, 2014 at 02:27 PM.
12 Second Club
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: 217
Since you lowered the car, I assume you put shorter shocks on the front. Check to see if front will get full droop and the shocks aren't holding it up from getting there or possibly the sway bar. You can also shave the upper limiters too.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: New Taxes York
I didn't put shorter shocks in front. They're off the shelf Delcos made for the car. It'll full droop.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2011
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From: Marengo, Ia
If you want to put power to the ground and go around corners it's time to trade those 15's in for 17's, or at least 16's. I've searched pretty extensively for some performance 15 inch tires in "muscle car sizes" and other that some very expensive Avons that are more of a race tire that wont last more than 5-10K miles at most, nothing exist.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: New Taxes York
I've never been able to check the weight bias. Haven't found a shop around here that'll have that capability.
Getting rid of the rear drums is definetly on the list!! My God they're scary. I've just been hanging onto them till I can put a larger wheel combo on the car. (Damn...gonna have to rob a LOT of banks now!). Then seats that actually hold a human body IN THEM. I'm tired of superglueing my pants to the seat every time I get in the car.
Getting rid of the rear drums is definetly on the list!! My God they're scary. I've just been hanging onto them till I can put a larger wheel combo on the car. (Damn...gonna have to rob a LOT of banks now!). Then seats that actually hold a human body IN THEM. I'm tired of superglueing my pants to the seat every time I get in the car.