Hello all! I've been lurking and searching in this group for quite some time. But now that I'm ready to get the ball rolling on my project I figured it's time to become a member.

I had really fallen in love with the new corvette Z06s. I've always wanted a sports car but was too busy riding and drag racing sportbikes to get one. Here lately I've really had the itch, but I've decided to keep from spending $100k on one, I'd rather build somewhat of a sleeper to match one (or preferably beat one ).

I originally wanted to do a LS1 swap into an A-body cutlass, but then ran across a decent deal on a 442 without the original numbers matching motor. For some reason that made me want this thing to really fly, so now 400hp just isn't enough. When it's all said and done I want this baby to be better than the new Z06 and ZL1, without completely killing my effenciency or savagely raping my pockets in the process. I still want it to be turn key ready and driveable, with a/c, good gas mileage, etc but most importantly I want about an 800hp pro touring 442 that will be all that I could ever want in a Z06 without that price tag.

So now the plan is a 6.2 and later adding some type of boost for power. I have recently been finding more L94s and L99s with low mileage than anything both with 6l80s. I usually can either of them with tranny for around $3500, and around $3k without tranny. At first I was leaning towards the l94's because I thought they had iron blocks, with the L99s having aluminum. But I've learned that they're both aluminum so I guess I can go either way.

After reading many threads in here, I see that the 6l80 is usually avoided because it will require a lot of fabrication, so most go with the 4l80. Has anyone been successful fitting the 6l80 in the A-bodies without butchering it up too much? Is the 6l80 worth the hassle? For what I want from this car, is there a better combo or transmission to go with?

Also, to achieve my goal,which boost would you suggest? I've seen many use the LSA Superchargers or some type of procharger but I'm not sure which others should be considered.

I'm open to all suggestions and info, even if you don't think the L94 or L99 would be the way to go. I'm sure I've got some of my research wrong and may need to reconsider quite a few things so all help is greatly appreciated!!!!!



Thank you all in advance!

Glad I finally joined!

 

That sounds like a great start to a project! Pictures?? Only thing that I would suggest would be to have a built bottom end.

800 HP is a lot for a stock motor. I have read several places where a pretty solid recipe for 800 HP is a stock LS7 bottom end with LS9 top end, which includes the supercharger.

 

Hey Texan
first off-welcome brother! I too started off as a lurker about 5 years ago. Your plans for the 442 sound amazing, so I’ll offer up some direction I took with mine and you can see if it resonates with you. Also, I can be a bit wordy to get thoughts out, so I’ll try to keep it short and if you want more details on anything just ask. Also I use a lot of parenthesis (I don’t know why,lol)

After 5 years of conversations with Marc Savitske at SC&c and reading literally every post that Ron Sutton has ever made over at Pro-touring.com, my goals became this: a high performance car using the BBSS(Big Bar Soft Spring) approach, that has minimized all the suspension geometries that lead to erratic behavior. I want to be able to drive to GingerBrook or Blackhawk farms raceway, race all day and go back without being destroyed from white knuckling the thing around the track. I’m only running a 500(at best) hp iron block LQ9, so I won’t be the fastest, but I will be as fast as that car can go with that power (I hope).

There were a few key things here that turned the car into something very special:
• Roll Centers- bringing the front RC above ground, and being able to change the RC height in the rear.
• Correcting the Camber Curve, and adding lots of Caster
• Laterally stabilizing the rear diff and adding the ability to change AntiSquat and Roll Steer
• Shocks
• Managing Airflow under the car(I’m working on a front splitter, but haven’t implemented it yet)
Roll Centers
To bring the RC’s up, I used the Howes Tall Upper Ball joints from SC&C. And to correct bump steer issues(the outside tire getting steering input because of body lean) the tall LOWER bj was used. I did a lot of this stuff in stages, and these changed the car completely.
If I could do this all again, I would not buy the CPP brake kit, and I would start with a non-factory spindle with all this geometry correction built in(negating the need for tall BJ’s). ATS spindles come to mind, but there may be even cooler stuff out there now.
Correcting Camber/Caster
I have SPC adjustable upper control arms. These are nice pieces that allow me to set the alignment myself. I have the fastrax caster/camber gauge so I can do it myself and know it’s done right.(I have had poor luck with local shops.) BTW, the A-bodies camber the tires the wrong direction in a turn, so correcting this is a big step.
Rear Roll Center
As you lower the car(which I anticipate you will), the rear roll center skyrockets well into the trunk area, while also increasing antisquat. I also had another issue, where my 295/45/R18s would rub even though I spaced them perfectly with nearly 11mm of clearance. They rubbed because the axles and the housing itself will shift ¾’’ from side to side during a turn. This first makes the car very unsettled going into a turn cause it’s moving around so much back there, but rubbing the Nittos put me over the edge.
I eliminated the lateral movement And corrected the roll center height with the Fays2 Watts link. The rear end doesn’t move a mm now and I can change the car completely from over steer to understeer (or the perfect balance inbetween) in 5 minutes with a single bolt position change. I absolutely love how the watts changes the car and made it more stable and predictable.

Shocks:
I run the Varishock SS form ChassisWorks and I couldn’t be happier. If I had more money I would go with their single adjustables and if I had even more money I would love a set of double adjustables. But they’ve done an excellent job on the SS’s with nice and tight digressive valving. The fit perfectly into the BBSS approach.
While were here, spring rates should be purchased with thought to ensure you get the ride frequency you are after. SC&C has done extensive testing and calcs on numerous combos, and marc won’t steer you wrong. Ballparks of 650 front and 175 back if I remember right for something more geared more towards racing/autocross.
I’m personally not a fan of coil overs. I know some people are and that’s cool, but I’ve been able to accomplish all my goals without them.

This is getting super long, so I’ll cut it here, I hope this helps give some direction and am really excited to see where you take this. Post some pics if you got time.

 

I have a 6L80 in my 1965 Buick Skylark. Had the raise the transmission tunnel maybe 3/4".

 

I've read on here that the tunnel would have to be raised. Was talking to a shop this weekend that said its best not to raise tunnel due to angling of driveshaft. He says it will go right in, the pan just may hang low. Swears that there won't be any clearance issues on a cutlass and if needed we can just use a shallow oil pan.

 

Thanks for the welcome and all of the info,wasn't too long at all. Like I said, I'm trying to learn all that I can. Oh and by the way man that's a beautiful car!

I won't be doing and road racing. Maybe some highway rolls or something lol. I say that I won't ever put it on the dragstrip but you never know. I do plan on upgrading the entire suspension. Gotta do some shopping and see what's out there. One shop suggested a Qa1 supspension kit. Haven't researched any yet but thats definitely next. I'm currently trying to decide if I should pull the plug on this 2015 Escalade combo with 20k I found for $3800. If I can't get that 6l80 to work without too much cutting, I'd have to sell it and find something else

 

Finding a good deal on an LS9 is pretty much slim to none. Wouldn't I come out cheaper just putting a supercharger on top of a pullout ls3, l99 or l96?

 

Time for a reality check. First of all, you need to reset your expectations. A GM a-body will never out perform a new Z06 or ZL1, unless it has about $300k put in it...Maybe like this car:


Your post mentioned a lot of "firsts".....have you ever even had a car with 300hp?

Andrew

 

About the 1:28 mark or so...doubt it's a $300k build but I could be wrong.
Preciate your "reality check' , link, comment. Very helpful, informative and motivating!!!

 

I'm with GatTagO. If this is your first swap, get a 6.0 or 6.2. Then you're at around 400hp stock. Don't be chasing an hp number, find out what's drivable for your needs. I put a 400hp 6.0 in my 68 corvette with plans for a 500 hp top end. Decided I didn't need it.
800hp can cause a lot of trans and rear end carnage, consider what rear you have too.
My suggestion, build a 400hp car with capability to boost to 600hp if you want a supercharger later. Then see if you need/want some more "extreme" suspension changes.
My 72 olds 442 has a stock 5.3 in it nd I'm more than happy with it as a daily driver.

 

Sometimes it is cheaper spending the money upfront, rather than doing the nickle and dime approach, but that's much easier said than done. That kind of coin is hard to come by.

Like others have said, 800 hp is a lofty goal. Especially when you use words like cheap, haha.

 

In your original post you mentioned Z06 and ZL1...you also said:

"I still want it to be turn key ready and driveable, with a/c, good gas mileage, etc but most importantly I want about an 800hp pro touring 442 that will be all that I could ever want in a Z06 without that price tag."

The Chevelle in the video isn't exactly a pro-touring car...it is also unclear if it has reliability, A/C, good gas mileage, etc....

Andrew

 

What's that old saying???

"cheap, fast, reliable...pick two..."

Andrew

 

Good point, and yea poor choice of words lol.

Here's what I was looking at:
LSA is 556hp, LS9 is 638hp.
L99/l96/LS3 (400-430hp), built up right (about 500+hp), plus some type of FI should be 700+hp on 93 octane and closer to 800hp if built for e85. All of this still being cheaper than buying a LSA or LS9. As I said in the original post, the plan is to start with a 6.2 of some sort, then add the FI later. That way I can get the 6.2 built and installed, and enjoy it until I'm ready to add the FI.

Would a built motor and added supercharger be better, more hp, and slightly cheaper than a LS9?

Or am I way off, and looking at things all wrong?

 

Agreed, that car isn't. Doesn't mean mine can't be...

 

Is there a target budget?

Andrew

 

The main thing you need to be thinking about is your budget because stuff can get out of control fast. I just finished my 1st ls turbo swap and I had a strict budget that was hard to follow at times (I am a CFO too, lol).

Really think about what you are going to use the car for. For most people 600whp is absolutely enough for the street and just enjoying.... that can be done sloppy mechanics style with a 500 buck 5.3 and a few upgrades.... Or you could always spend 30,000.00 for crate motors and forged stuff putting $$$ into the ride that you will never see again. Ask me how I know about putting $$ into classic cars that you will never see again if sold lol.......