89ED

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys,

Im going to be doing my first ever LS swap on my 1989 Camaro. Sorry, if this questions has been asked a million times. If it has could someone redirect me to a thread?
Im going to be installing a stock ls3 58x with no emission components backed by a t56. I am between going with a Holley terminator or a BP stand-alone harness kit. If I go Holley I could do dbc and if I stay with a stock ecm I will need the pedal for dbw which isn’t a major issue. My questions is, if I don’t plan on doing any power adders maybe a cam swap down the road is it best to go with the stock Ecm or Holley terminator? What’s your preference those that had experience with both.

Thanks!

Eddie

meld

I've used both and it came down to cost for me. The cost of the standalone engine harness and stock ECM ended up being cheaper than the Holley on my second swap. There was a lot of functionality with the Holley I ended up just not using to warrant the cost.

89ED

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, for the reply. I am considering costs and I think if I go with stock it will be slightly cheaper. I seems like I will most likely not use all the Holley features but the self-tuning and some other features is what attracts almost everyone. How is the quality if the Holley harness?

meld

The quality is as expected for a wiring harness from a big name like Holley, everything fit and plugged right in. The auto-tune feature is nice but for me I wasn't sure it justified the cost over taking my stock ECM swapped car to get tuned. These were both in LS swapped Miatas. If I were to have had a more extreme build I definitely would've stuck with the Holley but the 2nd time around it was just an LS3 with cam and intake and the stock ECM did just fine.

89ED

iTrader: (1)

Gotcha! I am doing a pretty much the same build you did just a stock LS3 and if I ever decide to add some power maybe a cam and I would probably be easier to do a mail tune. Thanks for your input!

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

If you don't have a background in tuning, Holley EFI is a lot easier to learn.

Honestly I'd pick Holley EFI over any stock ECU even if it does cost a little more.

Jimbo1367

I totally agree. I bought a aftermarket harness (Speartech-$$$$$) and reprogrammed the ECU.
I never got it finished yet, and I still bought a Terminator XMax due to its features and self tuning capabilities.

Only thing I wish the Terminator X had was a 2nd oxygen sensor. I’m not coughing up the coin for the big system. Not for my junk

Ls7colorado

iTrader: (3)

By the time you pay for tuning the Holley will come out cheaper. Especially if you are going to swap the cam later and need another retune.
Also, the Holley has a built in wide band, built in 2 step, and you can mount the screen to use for gauges if needed.

Haggar

I have done both. I encourage anyone to learn a few basics about EFI, and how to tune, as it isn't that hard. After 2 years of running HP Tuners + Stock ECU, I jumped to Holley (Terminator X Maxx) the week it became available. It has worked flawless for me, and is much easier to tune. It also has some serious benefits with closed loop, wideband measurements, and datalogging, that you either can't have, or spend extra for on a stock ECU. I also use this on 1 convertible with no locking storage, so I can datalog without a laptop, change between 2 different tunes, etc.

When it came time for a 2nd ECU in my other build, I went again for Holley. Very happy with both, about 2 years on one, 3 years on the other. Reminds me, I need to sell my gen 3 and 4 stand alone harnesses and ECU..

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

I would go with the Holley EFI (I am biased since I do remote tuning for Holley EFI). I would also encourage you to go with the Terminator X Max ECU and retain the DBW 90mm LS3 throttle body. Having DBW opens tuning options that are not available with the cable throttle body. This is especially beneficial with stick shift cars where the sensitivity of the pedal can be adjusted for better drivability.

Andrew

rpturbo

iTrader: (47)

FYI Long Story
So I have been a Holley advocate for years, until recently. I am currently on the fence. I'm trying to figure out if I am legitimately pissed or not, so here's the story.
I tune certain people's cars. I don't tune a ton of cars, but will for certain people.
August 2021 I was asked to tune on a guys car, from someone I already tune for. Car has a Terminator X max on it. Didn't run very good. Had a bad at best tune in it. I connect to it, I had to firmware update it. Fine, done this several times before, but it bricked. WTF. This was a week before LS Fest. Tell him sorry, ship it back to Holley. Eventually it comes back unlocked. It's now winter, cars put up.

This particular guy, has several cars. Between life, family, COVID stuff, other cars, he doesn't do anything with it till you guessed it, about 3 weeks before LS Fest. Wants to take the car, make some good numbers at LS Fest.

He changed injectors in the car, and wanted to start it up. Explained tune needed changed, so the wizards is used to get tune right enough to start it (I'm not there with a computer, wizard should be good enough to start it)
He fires it up, dumping fuel out the driver's side, raw fuel.

After tons of mechanical trouble shooting, hooking up my laptop to update the tune, being told firmware needed to be updated again, it comes down to the ECM. Ship it back to Holley, now told it has a bad injector driver, and it's junk. Tech who called left a message said they had "options" Called back, told the only option was to buy a new one. Okay, placed the order, no discount at all, then ask what's the ETA, oh, no idea, I'm #87 on the list.

Now I'm mad, quick Google, hmmm, Summit has 8 in stock, 10% off, had it in 3 days. Took Holley a week to release my funds.

Now, this is a 1k ecm to replace. Luckily it's not a Dominator, those are around $1600. But my point is, they are great, lots of features, tune very well, but a stock ECM can be bought anywhere and tuned for $100 credits, or less if the cable is already unlocked. I know not everyone has a HP Tuners cable ECT. But they had no shame in not even offering a discount, let alone being apologetic about any of it. I know it's car stuff and things happen. I wasn't a *** to any of the tech guys, ever, and I understand they can't say the ECM has sat in the box they shipped it in for almost 11 months before figuring out it was junk. It wasn't shipped to them with that issue, and it was supposed to be all checked and updated, clearly wasn't.

Now I was prepared to swap my junk over, now I'm seriously having second thoughts. My truck was LS swapped 10 years ago. Still runs.

Sorry for the long post.

pdxmotorhead

I'm happy with the terminator X max ,, runs my trans, runs the engine. (Was my first go at my own tune-able standalone)

I would caution that its super important to install and complete the wiring install EXACTLY as the manual says to.
BEFORE YOU PLUG THE ECU IN..

I did some resistance and voltage measurements and got odd numbers on grounds and such if I didn't cable to the
recommended ground points (Especially the coil grounds to the heads... )

Also I recommend not trying to merge the Holley
Into the stock harness. (I did this in a couple spots initially and it was a recipe for problems.

If I was starting over I'd have a relay block and termination to bridge any signal from the car to the ECU
and harness so that whatever weirdness the car getting the swap has they don't share..

Also,, don't disconnect the battery with the key on. I also pull the fuse to the ECU before pulling a battery cable.
(I'm a bit cautious about the backwash of that battery to the ecu if any cable arcing occurs. )

I've helped a couple other guys install and its hard to keep everybody slowed down. Easy to get in a hurry and cross something up.

I went Holley because I don't ever want to argue with a tuner about "locked" tunes or ECU.
Based on me pricing it out,, I figured the diff was < 200 bucks.. In a swap,, thats just mice nuts.